[ncl-talk] Important announcement regarding the future of NCL

Fri Feb 8 07:30:22 MST 2019

...very well said Gus,
I hope the PI will read your post!

Chang

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 6:16 PM Gus Correa <gus at ldeo.columbia.edu> wrote:

> Hi Carl, List
>
> I am not against progress (let alone evolution!) but the Python hype folks
> have to present arguments that are more
> sound than just "everybody is using it".
> That is fashion, that is not software design.
>
> NCL is a very well designed, well implemented, concise, and user friendly
> data analysis and visualization language and package,
> besides being well documented and supported.
> That is what really counts from the user standpoint.
> Can the explosive myriad of Python modules, with all their undocumented
> and incompatible versions,
> claim the same?
>
> Such hype and the same explosion of modules,
> also happened to Perl years back.
> It put the language in a fast rotating centrifuge, and Perl nearly died
> from it.
>
> Can the NCL developers guarantee that this transition to Python will keep
> the tight consistency,
> clear user interface, and beloved language features that NCL has, once it
> starts depending
> on the Python module diffuse "ecosystem"?
>
> ***
>
> You get Python 2.7 with most Linux distributions today. It is called
> simply python.
> To get Python 3 you need to install it separately, and it will be called
> ... well ... python3, because the underlying
> OS (Linux) underpinnings depend deeply on python (2.7) to work, and python
> 2.7 is incompatible with python3 (3.4, 3.6 or whatever).
> Now, installing Python 3 this way doesn't guarantee that you will have the
> latest greatest Python packages.
> Then people go for Anaconda.com to get anaconda, miniconda, etc.
> And there the versions abound, new ones coming by the day, with little
> regard for backward compatibility, documentation,
> consistency, correctness, etc.
> Did they agree on how to represent complex numbers already or not? On all
> packages?
>
> Do we need to put ourselves (and science-oriented users that are not
> professional programmers or system administrators)
> in this situation to continue to use NCL?
>
> A language is hard to learn, and once learned it is treasured by those who
> become fluent.
> Can you imagine if somebody decides that we all should switch from English
> to Mandarin Chinese,
> because the majority rules?
> Would you be happy?
>
> ***
>
> With all due respect to my friend Mary, the notion proposed in the
> announcement email that
> "NCL is not going away. NCL users will be able to download NCL and execute
> their scripts for the foreseeable future."
> is hard to believe.
>
> Once the Linux distributions update the system and other libraries that
> NCL uses, the NCL executables will stop working.
> And this won't take much long. Compilation from source will become even
> harder than it is today,
> because if the original code is no longer maintained, incompatibilities
> with the system and other libraries will creep in,
> and won't have how to be resolved.
>
> ***
>
> Likewise, how can this transition be put forward because:
>
> "Last but not least, it is becoming harder to hire developers who want to
> work on a programming language with a narrow focus, versus a highly visible
> and mainstream language like Python."
>
> This simply puts the developers first, and the users last!
> How can a project manager or managing group establish this type of
> priority?
>
> I can't believe this is part of the argument supporting this transition.
> I can't believe the programmer job market has such a surplus of job offers
> with the good salaries, benefits, and opportunities of growth
> offered by NCAR, that the job candidates to NCAR jobs are in a position to
> dictate the projects they want to work
> on even before they take the job.
> Years back there was a big wave of programmers taking jobs to fix the Y2K
> problem and other things and to
> program in COBOL language.
> Geez, how cheesy and outdated! ... a Python cool kid would say (if he only
> knew what COBOL is).
> Yet the jobs were taken, the work was done, and proceeded.
> It is not the language that dictates the quality of programming, it is the
> programmer quality that dictates it.
> Actually, COBOL is alive and kicking:
> https://devops.com/the-beauty-of-the-cobol-programming-language-v2/
>
> NCL is not worse than COBOL.
> It also deserves better.
>
> ***
>
> Thank you,
> Gus Correa
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 3:08 PM Carl Schreck <cjschrec at ncsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Just to chime in... I'm second to none in my love for NCL. It's the only
>> language I use on a daily basis and has been so for more than a decade.
>>
>> That said, I've known for a long time that python would probably be the
>> last language that I would ever learn. It's the first time since Fortran
>> that scientists, engineers, programmers, and web developers are all using
>> the same language. That confluence will carry it for decades. We can't
>> overstate the value of being able to tap into such a large community of
>> users.
>>
>> My gratitude for the NCL team is beyond words. Like many of you, my
>> learning curve and conversion to python will be slow and painful. I will
>> greatly miss how seamlessly NCL reads netcdf & grib, and esp. it's { }
>> coordinate subsetting. But as others have said, all my legacy code will
>> work during the transition and beyond.
>>
>> It's a sad day, but I'm confident that NCAR made the right decision for
>> our community.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 2:45 PM Barry Lynn <barry.h.lynn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gus:
>>>
>>> I think that was well said.
>>>
>>> I, for one, was quite proud of myself for becoming proficient in NCL --
>>> but especially so because it is so logically designed and so useful.  It is
>>> a a very flexible program for  both plotting data and for extracting data
>>> from various data sets, and even has a way to run various batch commands
>>> from within NCL. In other words, it is a programming (graphics) language
>>> that I and others can do really useful scientific and scientific
>>> applications.
>>>
>>> I wonder if the decision makers asked how many NCL users want to switch
>>> to python!
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:25 PM Gus Correa <gus at ldeo.columbia.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Mary, hi List and All.
>>>>
>>>> I share Barry's concerns for the same reasons and more,
>>>> which I expressed in the NCL survey months ago:
>>>>
>>>> 0) Excellence of NCL both as a data processing and data visualization
>>>> tool.
>>>> [Why should we phase out a winner?]
>>>>
>>>> 1) Large code base of programs written in NCL by many users.
>>>> [Would you phase out Fortran just because it is old-fashioned?
>>>> Replace it by something cool and trendy, just because it is cool and
>>>> trendy?]
>>>>
>>>> 2) Has the decision considered that many, if not most, NCL users are
>>>> not
>>>> expert programmers, already invested a lot of time to become proficient
>>>> in NCL,
>>>> and do not have the time or interest to learn another language to do
>>>> the same things that they already do?
>>>> The NCL user main goal is science, not programming.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Rapid release of Python modules (often unstable, low QC, often
>>>> buggy, poorly documented, inconsistent versions, no
>>>> commitment to back compatibility, etc),
>>>> making it difficult to keep a sane code base, and requiring users to
>>>> enter the nitty-gritty details of
>>>> versioning and version control, instead of concentrating in using the
>>>> tool for data analysis and science (which is their goal).
>>>>
>>>> 4) Possible dependency on Python relases distributed and controlled by
>>>> a commercial
>>>> enterprise (Anaconda.com: anaconda, miniconda and other constrictors).
>>>>
>>>> For example, was the decision years back by UCAR to base the netCDF-4
>>>> structure
>>>> and functionality on the (commercial entrerpise controlled) HDF-5
>>>> framework a wise one?
>>>> A few months back the HDF-5 group announced that it will no longer
>>>> support the
>>>> community legacy versions, and concentrate on their commercial latest
>>>> greatest version
>>>> and on the company profitability.
>>>>
>>>> I probably could list more items, but right now I am really sad to
>>>> learn that this is NCAR's decision.
>>>> In my view a very poor one.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Gus Correa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 1:53 PM Adam Phillips <asphilli at ucar.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Barry,
>>>>> Just to add to what Toni said: You will be able to continue to run
>>>>> your existing NCL scripts, there will be support through github and
>>>>> ncl-talk (albeit there may be less responses from the developers), and NCL
>>>>> graphics (in concert with pyNGL) will continue to be developed. I think
>>>>> some points were left unsaid in the original letter, as future staffing and
>>>>> future budgets are unknown.
>>>>> Adam
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:46 AM Toni Klemm <toni-klemm at tamu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Barry et al.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don’t think those programs have to be rewritten. My understanding
>>>>>> is the NCL version on your system will keep working, it just won’t get
>>>>>> future updates from the NCL team, and maybe less user support. Like many, I
>>>>>> have dozens of NCL scripts, but they will keep working. For the future
>>>>>> though, NCL users might be smart to transitioning to R or Python. FOR R and
>>>>>> R Studio there are NCL packages, basically add-ons that allow you to
>>>>>> process netCDF data in R. The basics of Python you can learn for example
>>>>>> through Software Carpentry <https://software-carpentry.org>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Toni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Toni Klemm**, Ph.D.*
>>>>>> Postdoctoral Research Associate
>>>>>> Department of Ecosystem Science and Management
>>>>>> College of Agriculture and Life Sciences
>>>>>> Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
>>>>>> Contributor to the Early Career Climate Forum
>>>>>> <https://www.eccforum.org/>
>>>>>> www.toni-klemm.de | @toniklemm <https://twitter.com/ToniKlemm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2019, at 10:06 PM, Barry Lynn <barry.h.lynn at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Mary:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A most pertinent question: how hard will it be for someone who has
>>>>>> worked hard to "know" NCL to transition to Python.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, keep in mind that I (and others) have written 10s of programs
>>>>>> in NC, and these would need to be rewritten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Barry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 12:59 AM Mary Haley <haley at ucar.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Barry,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I encourage folks to read the report, as it covers in detail why the
>>>>>>> decision to transition to Python, and what Python brings to the table:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.ncl.ucar.edu/Document/Pivot_to_Python/NCL_Pivot_to_Python_Report_and_Roadmap.pdf
>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ncl.ucar.edu_Document_Pivot-5Fto-5FPython_NCL-5FPivot-5Fto-5FPython-5FReport-5Fand-5FRoadmap.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=yz-Fa4nJPdDM4mRUn0H5NfqdFWgASciTiMBeSdNjHSg&e=>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a section "Why Python" (starts on page 5) that explains some
>>>>>>> of the reasoning behind this decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's the pertinent part of that section:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Why Python?*
>>>>>>> Python has gained widespread acceptance by universities and research
>>>>>>> organizations around the world and is being adopted as the programming
>>>>>>> language of choice for scientific computing. This is evidenced by several
>>>>>>> factors: 1) the availability of quality scientific Python modules via the
>>>>>>> SciPy ecosystem, 2) the continued and growing popularity of the annual
>>>>>>> SciPy conference, now in its 17th year, 3) the availability of books on
>>>>>>> Python for scientists, and 4) the increasing number of scientific graduate
>>>>>>> students who are learning Python in college as an open source alternative
>>>>>>> to other non-free software like IDL and MATLAB. In September 2018—for the
>>>>>>> first time in history—Python entered the TIOBE index top 3 (
>>>>>>> www.tiobe.com
>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.tiobe.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=NPg_3kgLJfrAEc8Q3bF6ZufzwtozXd-5FCPtL3LKB9g&e=>),
>>>>>>> a measure of popularity of programming languages based on search engine
>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Python has picked up rapid steam in the geoscientific community as
>>>>>>> well. For the last eight years the American Meteorological Society Annual
>>>>>>> Meeting has hosted a popular and well-attended symposium on the “Advances
>>>>>>> in Modeling and Analysis Using Python”. NCAR is a major partner in the
>>>>>>> Pangeo (pangeo.io
>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__pangeo.io&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=_BI6R6g4EqWUuigwl0IZHXnwHXFSOz47FSLhJSZdYMI&e=>)
>>>>>>> community, an NSF EarthCube funded effort that provides an “open source
>>>>>>> scientific Python ecosystem for ocean / atmosphere / land / climate
>>>>>>> science” and is focused on providing tools and support for handling
>>>>>>> petabyte-scale datasets on HPC and cloud platforms. There are hundreds of
>>>>>>> scientific Python modules that provide domain-specific functionality for
>>>>>>> reading/writing data, computational analyses, and visualization. The
>>>>>>> benefit of these individual packages is that they are usually specialized
>>>>>>> for a specific domain or class of problems, thus filling a critical need
>>>>>>> that a more general-purpose language cannot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Python language itself provides rich language features that NCL
>>>>>>> does not have, including optional arguments, a robust interactive
>>>>>>> interface, generators, exception handling, and built-in debugging and
>>>>>>> testing. The Python community has a rapidly growing base of scientific
>>>>>>> software developers that are able to address the growing needs of the
>>>>>>> geoscientific community much faster than we can in the areas of
>>>>>>> scalability, interfaces to other languages like R for statistical
>>>>>>> calculations, and support for a wider range of complex data formats. By
>>>>>>> replacing the NCL language with the Python language, the NCL user base will
>>>>>>> instantly gain access to these features, and we will be able to benefit
>>>>>>> from the already vibrant and active open development Python community.
>>>>>>> Python itself has been open developed since October 2000.
>>>>>>> Last but not least, it is becoming harder to hire developers who
>>>>>>> want to work on a programming language with a narrow focus, versus a highly
>>>>>>> visible and mainstream language like Python.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope this addresses your questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Mary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 7:29 AM Barry Lynn <barry.h.lynn at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Mary:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could you please help us understand what critical features are
>>>>>>>> missing from NCL but present in python so that we better understand why we
>>>>>>>> should switch.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Barry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 3:23 PM Mary Haley <haley at ucar.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear NCL Users,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This letter is in regard to the future of NCL, following NCAR's
>>>>>>>>> decision to move to Python as the scripting language of choice for future
>>>>>>>>> visualization and analysis software development. Note that this decision
>>>>>>>>> targets new development, leaving existing NCL functionality intact.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NCAR is committed to supporting data analysis software for
>>>>>>>>> atmospheric, oceanic, and climate science research. However, decreases in
>>>>>>>>> budgets and staff, coupled with the enormous functionality that Python
>>>>>>>>> brings to the earth sciences, has made it difficult to justify continuing
>>>>>>>>> new development on NCL. Python has seen rapid adoption by the earth science
>>>>>>>>> community and duplicates much of NCL's functionality, while adding critical
>>>>>>>>> features that NCL doesn't offer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Based on recommendations from NSF, CISL and NCL advisory panels,
>>>>>>>>> the results of the NCL survey, and months of evaluating different
>>>>>>>>> strategies for the future development and support of NCL, NCAR has arrived
>>>>>>>>> at these major decisions, effective immediately:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - Python will be adopted as the scripting language platform
>>>>>>>>>    for future visualization and analysis development.
>>>>>>>>>    - NCL's core language and file I/O will be placed into
>>>>>>>>>    maintenance mode.
>>>>>>>>>    - NCL's graphics will have continued development through PyNGL
>>>>>>>>>    <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyngl.ucar.edu&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=XjUKpVjTosG1QXg8tPanvc1VWz8lgMBhRmHlr54D4ww&e=>
>>>>>>>>>    ***.
>>>>>>>>>    - NCL's unique and critical computational routines will be
>>>>>>>>>    ported to an as-yet-to-be-named Python package.
>>>>>>>>>    - PyNIO
>>>>>>>>>    <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyngl.ucar.edu_Nio.shtml&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=eYYQhhwmjnYoMGlTw_DrlkxnLRKaZf9qt4qZ7oIl4b0&e=>
>>>>>>>>>    *** will be placed into maintenance mode.
>>>>>>>>>    - Development will continue on WRF-Python
>>>>>>>>>    <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wrf-2Dpython.readthedocs.io_en_latest_&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=SRZaRV6rql3QcJHAIFeRtPaJNotCWR_YFuywSlAxDAk&e=>
>>>>>>>>>    ***.
>>>>>>>>>    - All software, including NCL and PyNIO, will be moved to a
>>>>>>>>>    more open development software platform to allow for continued community
>>>>>>>>>    development.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *** PyNIO, PyNGL, and WRF-Python are Python modules built on top
>>>>>>>>> of NCL libraries, and are developed and supported by the NCL team.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NCAR recognizes the significance of these changes. It will take
>>>>>>>>> time for NCL users to transition to Python, and some users may not want to
>>>>>>>>> make the switch at all. As such, we want to stress that NCL is not going
>>>>>>>>> away. NCL users will be able to download NCL and execute their scripts for
>>>>>>>>> the foreseeable future.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To help users who want to begin transitioning their graphical NCL
>>>>>>>>> scripts to PyNGL right away, Karin Meier-Fleischer of DKRZ has written a
>>>>>>>>> first draft of an "NCL-to-Python Transition Guide
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A___www.ncl.ucar.edu_Document_Manuals_NCL-5Fto-5FPython_Transition-5FGuide-5FNCL-5FPyNGL.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=a3sboqqRFVThkjcuPudM_0tLy_Bo0eDIIlgK5OASFwo&e=>"
>>>>>>>>> accompanied by a suite of NCL and Python examples
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ncl.ucar.edu_Applications_NCL-5Fto-5FPython_&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=LEBpgpbmvF5EKsuZVq-Oik-e3WTT26MmT6Zy0FCeb40&e=>.
>>>>>>>>> Additionally, we will soon begin converting a subset of the NCL application
>>>>>>>>> examples to Python, using PyNGL
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pyngl.ucar.edu_&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=VZDbL9EjlrCHncOZb_tT6Q8ifLAfXDt5XR1_thUOj9M&e=>
>>>>>>>>>  and matplotlib
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__matplotlib.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=houOTRZi2bLqejxNKntfvEpoJj3nsFfjc_keFU-o4NE&e=>,
>>>>>>>>> and will continue to answer questions on the ncl-talk
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman.ucar.edu_mailman_listinfo_ncl-2Dtalk&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=TEqpggwoOULSGTXA0ktYGBrVl79eAsBtpqWNPVyiGe4&e=>
>>>>>>>>>  email list, but scaling back in order to start helping with
>>>>>>>>> Python questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For a detailed report and roadmap on the "pivot to Python"
>>>>>>>>> decision and transition plan, please read the "NCL and the Pivot
>>>>>>>>> to Python: Discussion and Roadmap
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ncl.ucar.edu_Document_Pivot-5Fto-5FPython_NCL-5FPivot-5Fto-5FPython-5FReport-5Fand-5FRoadmap.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=yz-Fa4nJPdDM4mRUn0H5NfqdFWgASciTiMBeSdNjHSg&e=>"
>>>>>>>>> report, which can be found on a special page we created containing
>>>>>>>>>  other supporting documents
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ncl.ucar.edu_Document_Pivot-5Fto-5FPython_&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=SRVKQ5isbDnyHvL4wzQeQEpJthMV6M3e0w01qJF9S50&e=>
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The NCL team welcomes your input on this decision. We also want to
>>>>>>>>> know if there are other ways we can help ease the transition to Python and
>>>>>>>>> encourage users to become more active contributors through open
>>>>>>>>> development. Please use this GitHub issue
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_NCAR_ncl_issues_64&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=2dmElBi9C2oq4us6lvx7AJ7C9I8qbH8wiV1PzKs9u3k&e=>
>>>>>>>>>  to submit questions or comments so we can keep the discussion
>>>>>>>>> public.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *NCL Team:*
>>>>>>>>> John Clyne (acting group head)
>>>>>>>>> Rick Brownrigg
>>>>>>>>> Mary Haley
>>>>>>>>> Kevin Hallock
>>>>>>>>> Bill Ladwig
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> ncl-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
>>>>>>>>> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman.ucar.edu_mailman_listinfo_ncl-2Dtalk&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=TEqpggwoOULSGTXA0ktYGBrVl79eAsBtpqWNPVyiGe4&e=>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Barry H. Lynn, Ph.D
>>>>>>>> Senior Associate Scientist, Lecturer,
>>>>>>>> The Institute of the Earth Science,
>>>>>>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem,
>>>>>>>> Givat Ram, Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>>>>>>> Tel: 972 547 231 170
>>>>>>>> Fax: (972)-25662581
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> C.E.O, Weather It Is, LTD
>>>>>>>> Weather and Climate Focus
>>>>>>>> http://weather-it-is.com
>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__weather-2Dit-2Dis.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=Uv0CFIV_YJOKuyMuPo3lRqFEZpZiEHfHOPwrZRcPADU&e=>
>>>>>>>> Jerusalem, Israel
>>>>>>>> Local: 02 930 9525
>>>>>>>> Cell: 054 7 231 170
>>>>>>>> Int-IS: x972 2 930 9525
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Barry H. Lynn, Ph.D
>>>>>> Senior Associate Scientist, Lecturer,
>>>>>> The Institute of the Earth Science,
>>>>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem,
>>>>>> Givat Ram, Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>>>>> Tel: 972 547 231 170
>>>>>> Fax: (972)-25662581
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C.E.O, Weather It Is, LTD
>>>>>> Weather and Climate Focus
>>>>>> http://weather-it-is.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__weather-2Dit-2Dis.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=ODFT-G5SujMiGrKuoJJjVg&r=WsLJ5ywbW3XnTzqo_ETV62H6s1a5bcGgnrpl7xPRfic&m=iOo39tnO8aeORpG5noJIhwsDxjOcD1HnwHFp0MTvde4&s=Uv0CFIV_YJOKuyMuPo3lRqFEZpZiEHfHOPwrZRcPADU&e=>
>>>>>> Jerusalem, Israel
>>>>>> Local: 02 930 9525
>>>>>> Cell: 054 7 231 170
>>>>>> Int-IS: x972 2 930 9525
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ncl-talk mailing list
>>>>>> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
>>>>>> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ncl-talk mailing list
>>>>>> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
>>>>>> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Adam Phillips
>>>>> Associate Scientist,  Climate and Global Dynamics Laboratory, NCAR
>>>>> www.cgd.ucar.edu/staff/asphilli/   303-497-1726
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/staff/asphilli>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ncl-talk mailing list
>>>>> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
>>>>> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ncl-talk mailing list
>>>> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
>>>> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Barry H. Lynn, Ph.D
>>> Senior Associate Scientist, Lecturer,
>>> The Institute of the Earth Science,
>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem,
>>> Givat Ram, Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>> Tel: 972 547 231 170
>>> Fax: (972)-25662581
>>>
>>> C.E.O, Weather It Is, LTD
>>> Weather and Climate Focus
>>> http://weather-it-is.com
>>> Jerusalem, Israel
>>> Local: 02 930 9525
>>> Cell: 054 7 231 170
>>> Int-IS: x972 2 930 9525
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ncl-talk mailing list
>>> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
>>> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <https://ncics.org/> *Carl J. Schreck III, PhD*
>> *Research Scholar*
>> North Carolina State University <http://ncsu.edu/>
>> North Carolina Institute for Climate Studies (NCICS) <https://ncics.org/>
>> 151 Patton Ave, Asheville, NC 28801
>> e: cjschrec at ncsu.edu
>> o: +1 828 257 3140 <(828)%20257-3140>
>> c: +1 828 484 1702 <(828)%20484-1702>
>> Publications
>> <http://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=th8ONEcAAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate>
>> ncics.org/mjo
>> CycloneCenter.org <https://www.cyclonecenter.org/>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ncl-talk mailing list
> ncl-talk at ucar.edu
> List instructions, subscriber options, unsubscribe:
> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/ncl-talk
>
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