[Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
Estanislao Gonzalez
gonzalez at dkrz.de
Thu Aug 18 03:09:53 MDT 2011
Hi,
I agree with Martin. We could even add the email in plain text in with
the legend:
"If the link doesn't work please email cmip5-helpdesk at stfc.ac.uk with
the following information ..."
Or something like that. I think this should suffice for our purposes.
We already have manually updated the contactus page, so I see no problem
in hard coding the gateway name there. There's certainly a variable with
the name of the gateway available, but let's leave the gateway people
prepare that when improving the template.
My 2c anyways,
estani
Am 18.08.2011 11:04, schrieb martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk:
>
> I don't see any reason for not putting the pre-fill options in (the
> warning given by IE is triggered by the mailto:... Syntax, it has
> nothing to do with the pre-filling of content). If it works for IE and
> firefox that will cover most of our users and make operation of the
> helpdesk much easier,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 18 August 2011 09:49
> *To:* Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Agreed,
>
> When I click on the email links in your example HTML using Chrome on
> my Linux desktop Thunderbird pops up **without** the Sender field
> complete. It works with Firefox on Linux. On Windows Chrome works
> but on IE I get the warning "A website wants to open web content using
> this program on your computer: Microsoft Office Outlook". When I
> click "Allow" it works.
>
> So auto-filling an email is an interim solution but won't work for all
> users -- we need to keep the manual instructions too. I'd like to
> give the JSP experts a chance to help me on GTWY-2666 before I
> recommend a new update to contact-us.jsp.
>
> Stephen.
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> *From:*Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 18 August 2011 09:38
> *To:* Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> I think putting the gateway name in by hand is a reasonable solution
> at this stage. When we get a web form in the gateway it should be
> possible to go further and add not only the user's email address but
> also the URL of the page they came from to give further clues about
> the problem,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 18 August 2011 09:34
> *To:* Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Yes, the mail works, although I read that it can be flaky for some
> browsers/mail-clients. However, injecting the gateway name and openid
> isn't working the way I would expect. We can put each Gateway name in
> the JSP source by hand if need be.
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> *From:*Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 18 August 2011 09:29
> *To:* Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> I tried it on home.badc.rl.ac.uk/mjuckes/t1.html
> <http://home.badc.rl.ac.uk/mjuckes/t1.html> , it appears to work there,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 18 August 2011 09:24
> *To:* Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> I tried this on our test gateway and couldn't get it to work.
> However, I may have been doing something wrong. I'll continue the
> technical discussion on Jira issue GTWY-2666
> (https://vets.development.ucar.edu/jira/browse/GTWY-2666) and see
> whether we can work it out.
>
> S.
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> *From:*Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 18 August 2011 08:55
> *To:* Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Perhaps you could use: E.g. href="mailto:
> cmip5-helpdesk at stfc.ac.uk?subject=CMIP5 query:&body=Problems on .....
> gateway" in the cmip5-helpdesk link (substituting the URL of the
> gateway) -- this will identify the gateway the user is using , which
> will be a great help,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 17 August 2011 17:19
> *To:* Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Estanislao Gonzalez';
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> I have been evaluating how to moving forward as quickly as possible on
> this. In my view creating a web-form in the gateways will take
> resources from NCAR code emailing the form content to cmip5-helpdesk.
> It will require server-side code so is likely to be part of NCAR's
> Gateway release schedule.
>
> In the mean time we need to get to a stage where users directly email
> cmip5-helpdesk and provide a few vital pieces of information as
> quickly as possible. Therefore I suggest patching the "contactus.jsp"
> file in operational gateways so that they show something like what is
> live at http://cmip-gw.badc.rl.ac.uk/contactus/contact-us.htm
>
> I have attached a patch file for Gateway Administrators. Just
> implementing this alone will greatly reduce the time taken processing
> CMIP5-helpdesk.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stephen
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> *From:*Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 17 August 2011 16:56
> *To:* 'Estanislao Gonzalez'; Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP);
> don at ucar.edu; taylor13 at llnl.gov
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Hi Estani, Stephen, Don, Karl,
>
> Relevant views, but I'm afraid I'm not convinced by the need for or
> usefulness of an open system.
>
> Our CMIP5 footprints site shows 7 queries waiting for a response,
> which is not bad. I understand from Stephen that there may be a
> back-log of getting queries into the system and we clearly need to
> improve that part of the process. We need to use the human resources
> we have more effectively, and using the query management to distribute
> responsibility for answering queries is part of that.
>
> One thing that will greatly help is ensuring that we know where users
> are coming from when they submit a queries referring to "your web
> site" -- the only way we can do this is with a form which
> automatically includes the gateway in use and the URL of the referring
> page (i.e. the page from which the users accessed the query submission
> form). This should be a fairly minor piece of work. The form should
> submit queries straight into the query tracking system.
>
> The advantage of footprints over stackoverflow is that we have it
> configured to track queries and ensure that all queries are promptly
> answered. It can also provide a FAQ site (see
> https://footprints.badc.rl.ac.uk/cmip5_FAQ.html ), with a nice
> facility to copy FAQ into responses to users and create FAQ solutions
> from responses to users. The system also allows you to specify
> templates and standard explanatory texts to save repeatedly creating
> background information for common topics.
>
> We need to turn this into an operational system -- and that requires
> an agreement on how to staff the system. I think we should be putting
> all queries directly into the footprints system by providing users
> with the cmip5-helpdesk at stfc.ac.uk <mailto:cmip5-helpdesk at stfc.ac.uk>
> address and then improve on this by providing a form for them to
> submit queries with.
>
> Karl, Don: if we do this, will you be able to allocate staff to work
> through a suitable portion of the queries? I imagine we will have to
> provide some more guidance on how to use the system to make this work
> smoothly.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*Estanislao Gonzalez [mailto:gonzalez at dkrz.de]
> *Sent:* 16 August 2011 12:44
> *To:* Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Cc:* Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); don at ucar.edu;
> taylor13 at llnl.gov; go-essp-tech at ucar.edu;
> esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org; esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov
> *Subject:* Re: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Hi,
>
> It's probably not relevant to cast my vote here, but I completely
> agree with Stephen.
>
> To put it short, I just can't do much more than what I'm doing now,
> and that's far from what's required. I'm pretty sure that's the case
> for all of you too. So we are suffering from human resources shortage,
> and the help desk will be suffering the most.
> I think the open FAQ system is a valid try, we can always shut it down
> if it proves to cause more pain that what's solving. But the truth is,
> we are lagging behind in terms of usage, especially in user help, and
> we just don't have the required men power to catch up.
> Either we count on some tools and people (even the users) to help us
> along, or we start thinking in a Plan B ASAP. This won't get solved by
> itself, and we are just barely starting.
>
> My 2c anyways,
> Estani
>
> Am 16.08.2011 11:43, schrieb stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk:
> <mailto:stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk:>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> > The problem with tagging users or labelling their contributions as
> spam is that you may get letters from their lawyers, so I would start
> out with a
>
> > system we know how to control -- there will be enough chaos if we
> just open it to contributions from the 40 or so groups who are running
>
> > models or data nodes.
>
> My fear is that the alternative to not having a system like this is
> that communication within the CMIP5 science and data management
> community will remain poor. I understand where you are coming from,
> because I occasionally follow the climate-debate blogosphere, but I
> think we should run with this system and see where it works for us
> where it doesn't. I think we have no hope of designing a system
> up-front that does the job nearly as well.
>
> I believe the application has the power to control what content is
> placed on it. At the moment it's configured to be very open but
> cmip5-help can give permissions to users based on their reputation
> score. For instance your post is moderated if your score is below a
> certain value. Similarly we can set the reputation required to
> answer/comment/vote/flag/etc. Once a question is accepted it can be
> flagged as "misleading", "not-relevant", "inappropriate" or anything
> you want to configure. Questions can be closed as "Duplicate",
> "off-topic", "too subjective and argumentative", "outdated". Anything
> that we need that it can't do could be developed (we have the code)
> but we won't know we need it until we have used it for a while.
>
> > We want to have some system for keeping the content up to date --
> perhaps this could be done by tagging answers which are specific to a
>
> > current software version with that version (e.g. "Gateway 1.2.x") and
> then reviewing them as older versions are, hopefully, eliminated from the
>
> > operational federation,
>
> In the end this tool would be **part of** our procedures for
> communication and issue tracking. Someone would have to make sure
> answers are accurately tagged (maybe with software versions) and
> answered if relevant. Closing questions that are out of date,
> flagging them, etc. etc.
>
> Stephen.
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> *From:*Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 16 August 2011 10:01
> *To:* Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Don Middleton'; Karl Taylor
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu <mailto:go-essp-tech at ucar.edu>;
> esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org
> <mailto:esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org>;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov <mailto:esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov>
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> The problem with tagging users or labelling their contributions as
> spam is that you may get letters from their lawyers, so I would start
> out with a system we know how to control -- there will be enough chaos
> if we just open it to contributions from the 40 or so groups who are
> running models or data nodes.
>
> We want to have some system for keeping the content up to date --
> perhaps this could be done by tagging answers which are specific to a
> current software version with that version (e.g. "Gateway 1.2.x") and
> then reviewing them as older versions are, hopefully, eliminated from
> the operational federation,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 16 August 2011 09:49
> *To:* Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 'Don Middleton'; Karl Taylor
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu <mailto:go-essp-tech at ucar.edu>;
> esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org
> <mailto:esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org>;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov <mailto:esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov>
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> I'm confident the software could be configured to require a login to
> ask a question and we could constrain logins to those with ESGF
> OpenIDs. However I would put this in the category of "premature
> optimisation". If we get spurious questions we can tag them as "spam"
> down-vote them or even delete them. Users can be given a bad
> reputation score or you can even ban users.
>
> The system is designed to be open and, to some extent, chaotic. This
> encourages people to get involved whilst allowing the community to
> assign value to users, questions and answers. Therefore there isn't a
> workflow as such like you get in a bug tracker. If we want that we
> should link questions to bug tracker tickets so that closing a ticket
> triggers updating the question. However, I believe too much process
> could get in the way here.
>
> I'm not thinking the questions I bootstrapped the system with will be
> typical -- they are just what was in my mind at the time.
>
> Stephen.
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> *From:*Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Sent:* 16 August 2011 09:33
> *To:* 'Don Middleton'; Karl Taylor; Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu <mailto:go-essp-tech at ucar.edu>;
> esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org
> <mailto:esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org>;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov <mailto:esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov>
> *Subject:* RE: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Hello All,
>
> On the FAQ issue -- I think we do need an FAQ system that many people
> can contribute to, but I'd be worried about using an open one. At the
> moment we are dealing with a handful of developers, but we will have
> thousands of people looking at the data soon. One web sites work well
> in co-operative communities, but I think we would be flooded with
> superficial comments claiming to show that the data is worthless. On
> the other hand, as Stephen says, there is a clear need for something
> of this kind to allow us to gather the answers which we are all
> providing to users.
>
> As Karl says, there is also a need to make the system work better. I
> notice that some of the answers in the mock-up Stephen has created
> refer to known bugs which are being worked on -- and will presumably
> be fixed at some point. When we have thousands of questions and
> answers referring to known bugs, will there be a way of systematically
> ensuring that answers are updated when bugs are fixed?
>
> Can we use the "stackoverflow" system and configure it so that only a
> restricted (but large) group of people can contribute?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin
>
> *From:*go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu
> <mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu>
> [mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu]
> <mailto:[mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu]> *On Behalf Of *Don
> Middleton
> *Sent:* 16 August 2011 00:27
> *To:* Karl Taylor
> *Cc:* go-essp-tech at ucar.edu <mailto:go-essp-tech at ucar.edu>;
> esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org
> <mailto:esg-gateway-dev at earthsystemgrid.org>;
> esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov <mailto:esg-node-dev at lists.llnl.gov>
> *Subject:* Re: [Go-essp-tech] [esg-node-dev] Re: A CMIP5 FAQ Application
>
> Hi again, Karl - catching up on email pileup after a bit of vacation.
> First of all, I really like what Stephen has put together for
> collaboratively addressing user problems, and think this could help us
> quite a lot. I personally like using environments like this when
> dealing with app software problems.
>
> I think there's pretty good agreement that #1 below is a primary
> problem area. Getting consistent deployments is expected to help some,
> so the sooner you can upgrade to 1.3.1, the better. The attribute
> service being down may have been another issue here. Site
> configuration can be a problem as well. The problem with users hitting
> something that looked like dual registration interfaces involved
> several issues. The work is pretty much done on improving that a lot,
> and that's in 1.3.2 which we'll post more on shortly.
>
> Regarding #2, the community SOLR-search preview and now the 2.0 alpha
> are expected to solve many problems that have plagued us for quite
> some time. The sooner that folks can deploy that, the better for
> testing and soon making things better for our users.
>
> cheers - don
>
> On Aug 4, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Karl Taylor wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I agree with Stephen that our ability to quickly respond to the
> increasing number of requests seems likely to become overwhelmed. My
> cursory impression is, however, that the most common problems reported
> will be difficult for the user community to respond to; they seem to
> be associated with flaws in ESG and/or gateway hardware. Am I correct
> that most frequent queries to the help desk are related to:
>
> 1. getting error messages, no response, or incorrect notice that a
> user doesn't have the proper permission to successfully download data
>
> 2. having problems finding data using the search capability (because
> sometimes this fails to return all datasets that it should).
>
> I think NCAR is making progress on the search problems (2 above), but
> I'm not sure anyone understands whether there are bugs or just
> confusion that's causing all the problems listed in 1 above. Perhaps
> along with thinking about alternatives to the current help desk,
> immediate attention needs to be paid to reducing the real problems
> encountered by the user by modifying the ESG software, possibly
> modifying the ESG user interface, so users won't be so easily confused.
>
> The first step might be to try to confirm that 1 above is causing most
> of the problems and to pin down exactly why the problems are being
> encountered. I think someone with a bit more complete technical
> understanding of ESG should be able to find the common issues that are
> being raised and suggest ways they might be addressed.
>
> Best regards,
> Karl
>
>
> On 8/4/11 7:55 AM, stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk
> <mailto:stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am increasingly convinced that the CMIP5 HelpDesk isn't scaling to
> the number of queries we are getting and definitely won't scale as
> CMIP5 gets more use. This is partly our fault at BADC for not
> managing to open up the HelpDesk sufficiently to make it easy for ESGF
> developers to contribute. This will improve in the near future
> (honest!) but I still think we need a more agile way to communicate
> with CMIP5 users.
>
> Therefore I want to float an alternative solution. A
> community-driven, interactive FAQ in the style of stackoverflow.com
> <http://stackoverflow.com>. The idea is that users, administrators
> and developers can collaborate on asking and answering questions in an
> open forum. There is a reputation system and a mechanism for voting
> for answers/questions which enables common questions and good answers
> to be highlighted. There is also a tagging system for classification.
>
> I have created a prototype service with a few questions in it at
> http://esg-dev1.badc.rl.ac.uk/. Please take a look and give me some
> feedback. Even better create an account and start asking and
> answering questions. I have deliberately answered only some of the
> questions to encourage people to get involved. If you don't like my
> answer add another one or comment on mine.
>
> If this appears to work for us the site can be moved to a production
> server easily without losing the questions. We could then link to it
> from the "Contact Us" page in the gateways and ask people to email
> cmip5-helpdesk only for questions they don't want to share with the
> community. I would like to discuss this at the ESGF telco on Tuesday.
>
> One note. You can use ESGF OpenIDs to create an account but CEDA
> OpenIDs don't work right now. I need to get Phil to fix that.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stephen.
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Pascoe +44 (0)1235 445980
>
> Centre of Environmental Data Archival
>
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK
>
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>
> --
> Estanislao Gonzalez
>
> Max-Planck-Institut für Meteorologie (MPI-M)
> Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum (DKRZ) - German Climate Computing Centre
> Room 108 - Bundesstrasse 45a, D-20146 Hamburg, Germany
>
> Phone: +49 (40) 46 00 94-126
> E-Mail:gonzalez at dkrz.de <mailto:gonzalez at dkrz.de>
>
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>
>
--
Estanislao Gonzalez
Max-Planck-Institut für Meteorologie (MPI-M)
Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum (DKRZ) - German Climate Computing Centre
Room 108 - Bundesstrasse 45a, D-20146 Hamburg, Germany
Phone: +49 (40) 46 00 94-126
E-Mail: gonzalez at dkrz.de
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