[Go-essp-tech] How does "experiment=volcanic aerosol" come tobe in CMIP5?

Fri Feb 17 11:16:58 MST 2012

Hi Jamie,

Nice suggestion.  I forgot that this info. is supposed to be in the 
catalogs.  Would seem to be definitely easier than downloading files and 
also easier to automate updates.  Don't know if it's  easier than 
querying the CIM, though.

Karl

On 2/17/12 10:06 AM, Kettleborough, Jamie wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I guess there may also be the question of keeping any summary up to date
> as new historicalMisc experiments appear.  If you want to do this in
> 'close to real time' then I think Karl's suggestion of inferring from
> the NetCDF files is promising - you *could* imagine something in the
> 'publish' chain extracting the relevant NetCDF attributes.  In fact
> aren't they there in the thredds catalogs?  For instance:
>
> http://cmip-dn.badc.rl.ac.uk/thredds/esgcet/7/cmip5.output1.MOHC.HadCM3.
> historical.day.ocean.day.r2i1p1.v20110728.xml
>
> Has a lines like:
>
> <property name="ensemble" value="r2i1p1"/>
>     :
> <property name="forcing" value="GHG, Oz, SA, Sl, Vl, (GHG = CO2, N2O,
> CH4, CFCs)"/>
>
> (I know this isn't a historicalMisc, but I'm running out of time - I
> think the principles the same - *provided* all thredds catalogs have
> extracted the same meta-data).
>
> So a variant on Karl's suggestion is to gather the information from the
> thredds catalogs for the historicalMisc experiments. (we can't quite do
> this straight off with our thredds reader as we don't read these
> properties - we've not needed them, until maybe now).  I don't know
> enough about publishing from a data node to know how this would fit in
> if you wanted to do it for all new historicalMisc experiments as they
> were published.
>
> Clearly both NetCDF (and by implication the thredds properties) and CIM
> metadata are prone to human error - figuring out what to put in the
> questionnaire or what values to pass to CMOR isn't straight forward.
> I'm not sure if one is any more prone to error than the other.  I
> suppose if you were really keen you could try both ways and see how much
> things match up, are there any obvious inconsistencies?
>
> Sorry I think I started on one train of thought, then got sidetracked
> onto another - I hope the general ideas are useful though, even if I've
> not expressed myself as clearly as I should have.
>
> Jamie
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu
>> [mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Bryan Lawrence
>> Sent: 17 February 2012 16:51
>> To: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu
>> Cc: Eric Guilyardi
>> Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] How does "experiment=volcanic
>> aerosol" come tobe in CMIP5?
>>
>> Hi Karl
>> One might get more information from a sql query on the CIM
>> database, or get it easier.
>> I'd discuss it with Eric and Gerry before you did anything.
>> Cheers
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>>> Bryan&  Balaji,
>>>
>>> I'm all for what's straightforward.   I'm also for putting
>> together a
>>> summary of this information sooner, rather than later.  I think the
>>> IPCC authors already put together a table for the normal
>> "historical" runs.
>>> Couldn't we just download one file from each of the historicalMisc
>>> runs, and write a script to read what's in the global
>> "forcing" attribute?
>>> We'd create a 3-column table with model name, p-value, and
>> the list of
>>> forcings.  This would take someone a few hours, of course,
>> and would
>>> assume folks had correctly recorded the forcings in the
>> attribute, but
>>> we could do this now, and not wait for everyone to complete the
>>> metafor questionnaire.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, perhaps the documentation will become available
>>> soon enough not to warrant the extra work.  what do you think?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On 2/17/12 8:21 AM, V Balaji wrote:
>>>> Agreed!
>>>>
>>>> I think the effort Karl is proposing to undertake (to
>> tabulate the
>>>> forcings associated with each p-value for each model) is a
>>>> monumental one without CIM metadata, and reasonably
>> straightforward
>>>> using the CIM.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 3:32 AM, Bryan Lawrence
>>>> <bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk>   wrote:
>>>>> Hi Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> This is precisely what the metadata side of things is
>> supposed to pick up. Future versions of the user interface
>> will have links between data and metadata, so you can click
>> through to the distinguishing factors, which hopefully will
>> have been entered in the simulation descriptions.
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Bryan
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Gary,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be sure, the experiment_id for the CCCMA dataset shown below
>>>>>> was (if
>>>>>> correct) "historicalMisc".  When they published it,
>> they chose to
>>>>>> name the experiment "volcanic aerosol".  This is
>> informational but
>>>>>> is not used by the ESG search engines or in any other automatic
>>>>>> processing that I know of.  (I thought whoever was publishing
>>>>>> would just put in experiment="historicalMisc", so it would be
>>>>>> consistent with the experiment_id global attribute.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think we've provided much guidance about this
>> (outside the
>>>>>> DRS document), but for each different combination of
>> forcings in
>>>>>> the historicalMisc runs, you should assign a different
>> "physics_version"
>>>>>> number (i.e., the "p" in the ensemble identifier, which in the
>>>>>> example below is "p3").  You should also record in the
>> global "forcing"
>>>>>> attribute in the netCDF file each of the forcings
>> included in each
>>>>>> of your historical(Misc) runs.  If you do an ensemble
>> of runs with
>>>>>> the same forcing, they should all have the same "p"
>> value and be
>>>>>> distinguished by the "r" values.  The standard
>> abbreviations for
>>>>>> each forcing are provided in the last appendix of the
>> DRS document
>>>>>> and also can be found at
>>>>>>
>> http://cmip-pcmdi.llnl.gov/cmip5/docs/cmip5_data_reference_Appendi
>>>>>> x1-2.pdf [Note that the output_requirements, available at
>>>>>>
>> http://cmip-pcmdi.llnl.gov/cmip5/docs/CMIP5_output_metadata_requir
>>>>>> ements.pdf , describes the "forcing" attribute.]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to put together a table that provides a
>> key showing
>>>>>> which forcings are included for each model and for each
>> value of
>>>>>> "p"; I just haven't gotten to this yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let me know if you can think of any way to make this
>>>>>> clearer to everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/16/12 7:31 AM, Gary Strand wrote:
>>>>>>> At what point (publishing?) does one of an "historicalMisc"
>>>>>>> experiment (as defined and required by the CMIP5
>> tables) get displayed as:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like our (NCAR) "historicalMisc" datasets have
>> a bit more
>>>>>>> information available than just the standard (as
>> described in the
>>>>>>> DRS
>>>>>>> document) "historical simulation but with other individual
>>>>>>> forcing agents or combinations of forcings."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a whole slew of variations that are not readily
>>>>>>> distinguishable (and less likely usable) by the above
>> generic description.
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary Strand
>>>>>>> strandwg at ucar.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list
>>>>>>> GO-ESSP-TECH at ucar.edu
>>>>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech
>>>>> --
>>>>> Bryan Lawrence
>>>>> University of Reading:  Professor of Weather and Climate
>> Computing.
>>>>> National Centre for Atmospheric Science: Director of
>> Models and Data.
>>>>> STFC: Director of the Centre for Environmental Data Archival.
>>>>> Ph: +44 118 3786507 or 1235 445012;
>> Web:home.badc.rl.ac.uk/lawrence
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list
>>>>> GO-ESSP-TECH at ucar.edu
>>>>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech
>>>>
>> --
>> Bryan Lawrence
>> University of Reading:  Professor of Weather and Climate Computing.
>> National Centre for Atmospheric Science: Director of Models and Data.
>> STFC: Director of the Centre for Environmental Data Archival.
>> Ph: +44 118 3786507 or 1235 445012;
>> Web:home.badc.rl.ac.uk/lawrence
>> _______________________________________________
>> GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list
>> GO-ESSP-TECH at ucar.edu
>> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech
>>
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