[Go-essp-tech] http 403 errors

Kettleborough, Jamie jamie.kettleborough at metoffice.gov.uk
Thu Oct 6 04:39:37 MDT 2011 

Hello Martin,

Thanks for the clarification on this.  An the current situation on
understanding this is that Stephen is waiting on other data nodes to run
tests - is that right?

Jamie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk [mailto:martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk] 
> Sent: 06 October 2011 10:32
> To: Kettleborough, Jamie; bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk
> Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: [Go-essp-tech] http 403 errors
> 
> Hi Jamie,
> 
> Under your point 2., I was just distinguishing between load 
> problems at the data-node and load problems at the 
> authorisation service. You can also get a 403 error, I think, 
> if you submit a second request while the first is still being 
> negotiated between the data-node and the authorisation 
> service. I guess it doesn't matter much to you where the load 
> problem is, except that if it is a data-node problem it 
> should, generally, not affect all data-nodes at the same 
> time. If it is an authorisation problem, the whole archive 
> will be affected.
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin
> 
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >[mailto:jamie.kettleborough at metoffice.gov.uk]
> > >Sent: 06 October 2011 10:26
> > >To: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk
> > >Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 
> > >Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >Subject: RE: [Go-essp-tech] http 403 errors
> > >
> > >Hello Martin,
> > >
> > >I'm not sure I understand your email well enough to get my reply 
> > >right
> > >-
> > >but I *think* it's a terminology thing.  As I understood 
> it there are
> > >2
> > >(main?) reasons we can get 403's back from the nodes
> > >
> > >1. because we are trying to get a dataset that we've seen in the 
> > >thredds catalogue, but which is not in the gateways 
> (either because 
> > >1a. it hasn't been published or 1b. because it got into a 
> funny state 
> > >during publishing).
> > >
> > >2. because the authorization is timing out (which I 
> thought seemed to 
> > >happen at times of higher loads - so I've been calling this a load 
> > >problem, but maybe that's not the right term).
> > >
> > >I can live with 1a. - I'm just taking this as a risk in the way we 
> > >are accessing the data. We can sort of live with 2 up to a 
> point - we 
> > >just keep retrying - though it is a pain and I'd really rather not 
> > >have to (or at least get a different response so I know 
> this is more 
> > >like a service unavailable than a 403).  1b. May be the hardest to 
> > >detect and deal with.  We've had several cases of this.
> > >
> > >Jamie
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk [mailto:martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk]
> > >> Sent: 06 October 2011 09:44
> > >> To: Kettleborough, Jamie; bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk
> > >> Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk
> > >> Subject: RE: [Go-essp-tech] http 403 errors
> > >>
> > >> Hi Jamie,
> > >>
> > >> Prioritisation is essential, but that doesn't have to mean not 
> > >> doing other stuff.
> > >>
> > >> On the 403 issue: are you sure this is a data-node load problem, 
> > >> rather than an authorisation service problem? I've increased the 
> > >> delay between submission of wget scripts from
> > >> 15 seconds to 30 in the last couple of weeks, because it appears 
> > >> that the time taken for a request to get security clearance, and 
> > >> hence the likelihood of interference with subsequent 
> requests, has 
> > >> increased. There have been some changes at STFC which may be 
> > >> contributing to this increased security clearance time, 
> on tip of 
> > >> any data-node/authorisation service congestion,
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Martin
> > >>
> > >> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >> > >From: Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >> > >[mailto:jamie.kettleborough at metoffice.gov.uk]
> > >> > >Sent: 05 October 2011 16:47
> > >> > >To: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk
> > >> > >Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 
> > >> > >Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >> > >Subject: RE: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Hello Martin,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Sorry if I've been unclear.  I don't 'not want to fix' the
> > >> problem, I
> > >> > >was trying to highlight the fact you have to prioritise, and 
> > >> > >somethings you'd like to do better with you have to
> > >> compromise on.
> > >> > >From my point of view PKI, checksums, understanding and
> > >> elimintating
> > >> > >those 403's we keep getting when the data nodes are under load
> > >are
> > >> > >much higher priority issues.  I'm not even sure if for other
> > >users
> > >> > >fixing netcdf base time and forcing problems aren't higher
> > >> priority -
> > >> > >I *suspect* these are MUCH higher used meta-data elements
> > >> than this
> > >> > >project.  (Yes I know we may have different views on the
> > >> risks posed
> > >> > >by these).
> > >> > >
> > >> > >But as I've said before I do not contribute/manage any
> > >> real effort to
> > >> > >this so you are very entitled to (down) weight my opinions
> > >> based on
> > >> > >this.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >OK I'll shut up on this issue - I think I've more than had my
> > >say.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >(Hope this didn't come across more forceful or grumpy than
> > >> I meant -
> > >> > >oh email can be such a pain)
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Jamie
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> > >> From: martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk
> > >[mailto:martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk]
> > >> > >> Sent: 05 October 2011 15:54
> > >> > >> To: Kettleborough, Jamie; bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk
> > >> > >> Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk
> > >> > >> Subject: RE: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> The difficulty is that putting information which we 
> known to 
> > >> > >> be wrong in a central catalog is sure to lead to confusion.
> > >> > >> That doesn't mean we know where or when the confusion
> > >> will arise,
> > >> > >> but it is certain to cause problems. The longer we leave it,
> > >the
> > >> > >> harder it will be to fix. Rather than trying to 
> image all the 
> > >> > >> places it might cause problems and trying to path up the
> > >> symptoms,
> > >> > >> we need to correct the catalog.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> I'm not sure why you want this not to be fixed -- are
> > >> you thinking
> > >> > >> that it is a big diversion of effort?
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> cheers,
> > >> > >> Martin
> > >> > >> ________________________________________
> > >> > >> From: Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >[jamie.kettleborough at metoffice.gov.uk]
> > >> > >> Sent: 05 October 2011 15:48
> > >> > >> To: Bryan Lawrence
> > >> > >> Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; Juckes, Martin
> > >> (STFC,RAL,RALSP); Pascoe,
> > >> > >> Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP); Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >> > >> Subject: RE: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Hello Bryan,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> If the problem with this project name is *only* within
> > >> the context
> > >> > >> of citation then I think you may be able to manage the
> > >> situation by
> > >> > >> modifying the guidelines on CMIP5 Data Citation 
> > >> > >> 
> (http://cmip-pcmdi.llnl.gov/cmip5/citation.html?submenuheader=
> > >> > >> 3).  I don't see that the guidelines suggest using the
> > >> project name
> > >> > >> as a term to use in citation, but even if they did you could
> > >add
> > >> > >> some text to the web page to help minimise the risks you
> > >> mention.
> > >> > >> In this case modifying this web page is probably better than
> > >the
> > >> > >> errata page I suggested.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> As you say you can still add it to a list somewhere to fix 
> > >> > >> when it's higher up the priority list.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Thanks,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Jamie
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > >> > From: Bryan Lawrence [mailto:bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk]
> > >> > >> > Sent: 05 October 2011 13:36
> > >> > >> > To: Kettleborough, Jamie
> > >> > >> > Cc: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu; martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk; 
> > >> > >> > stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk
> > >> > >> > Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > oh, yes, I agree, but it should be on the list ... and
> > >> it needs
> > >> > >> > revision before folks start writing papers and 
> casting this
> > >> > >> in stone
> > >> > >> > ... as happened last time, to the detriment of anyone
> > >> > >> having any clue
> > >> > >> > which data folks used ....
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > .. and it may be one more straw for some 
> republishing camels.
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > Cheers
> > >> > >> > Bryan
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > > Hello Bryan,
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> > > Yep I appreciate its different.  I just wonder 
> of all the
> > >> > >> > issues CMIP5
> > >> > >> > > has to deal with how high up the priority list this one
> > >> > >> > should be - it
> > >> > >> > > feels (to me - based on the knowledge I have, which is
> > >> > >> incomplete)
> > >> > >> > > like a problem you can try to manage with a 
> very low cost
> > >> > >> > solution -
> > >> > >> > > at least for a while.
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> > > Jamie
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > >> > > > From: Bryan Lawrence 
> [mailto:bryan.lawrence at ncas.ac.uk]
> > >> > >> > > > Sent: 05 October 2011 12:19
> > >> > >> > > > To: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu
> > >> > >> > > > Cc: Kettleborough, Jamie; martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk; 
> > >> > >> > > > stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk
> > >> > >> > > > Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > > Hi Jamie
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > > CMIP5 is different from IPCC!
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > > Data in the cmip5 archive will arrive after the ipcc
> > >> > >> > cut-off etc ...
> > >> > >> > > > and we will tag specific version of data that were
> > >> > >> > present in time
> > >> > >> > > > as IPCC later ...
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > > Cheers
> > >> > >> > > > Bryan
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > Hello,
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > I may be missing something here (either political or
> > >> > >> > > > technical that I
> > >> > >> > > > > don't know about) but this feels like a problem you 
> > >> > >> > > > > can
> > >> > >> > > > live with.  So
> > >> > >> > > > > what about:
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > Method C:
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > Don't fix anything for these old data sets.
> > >> > >> > > > > Start a **single** errata page that all the
> > >> gateways point
> > >> > >> > > > to.  Item 1
> > >> > >> > > > > on on the errata page says something like:
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > 'Some early datasets have been assigned an incorrect
> > >> > >> Project in
> > >> > >> > > > > the xxx database which affect the yyy view 
> on the data.
> > >> > >> > > > > For
> > >> > >> > > > datasets with
> > >> > >> > > > > Project = CMIP5 / IPCC Fifth Assessment Report,
> > >> please read
> > >> > >> > > > Project =
> > >> > >> > > > > CMIP5'
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > Jamie
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > >> > > > > > From: go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu 
> > >> > >> > > > > > [mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu] On 
> Behalf Of 
> > >> > >> > > > > > martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk
> > >> > >> > > > > > Sent: 05 October 2011 10:17
> > >> > >> > > > > > To: stephen.pascoe at stfc.ac.uk; 
> go-essp-tech at ucar.edu
> > >> > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect 
> dataset names
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Hello Stephen,
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > yes, it should be "project=CMIP5, model=....".
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > On A vs. B I don't have a strong preference. I
> > >> suppose A
> > >> > >> > > > would make
> > >> > >> > > > > > sense if there were other issues which could be
> > >> > >> > addressed in the
> > >> > >> > > > > > same republishing exercise -- so it may be
> > >> worth waiting
> > >> > >> > > > for a few
> > >> > >> > > > > > more opinions. The problem I can see with B is
> > >> > >> > ensuring that all
> > >> > >> > > > > > gateway databases are updated -- but maybe I'm
> > >> > >> imagining more
> > >> > >> > > > > > difficulty here than there is,
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > cheers,
> > >> > >> > > > > > Martin
> > >> > >> > > > > > ________________________________________
> > >> > >> > > > > > From: Pascoe, Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
> > >> > >> > > > > > Sent: 05 October 2011 09:50
> > >> > >> > > > > > To: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); 
> > >> > >> > > > > > go-essp-tech at ucar.edu
> > >> > >> > > > > > Subject: RE: Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Hi Martin,
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Sorry, that's an old configuration setting.  To
> > >> > >> > confirm should
> > >> > >> > > > > > it just say "project=CMIP5, model=..."?  
> There are 
> > >> > >> > > > > > several
> > >> > >> > > > ways to fix
> > >> > >> > > > > > this problem, some quicker than others.
> > >> > >> > > > > > I would suggest:
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Method A (slower, more correct):
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > >  1. Change the ESG Publisher configuration  2.
> > >> Regenerate
> > >> > >> > > > > > THREDDS catalogs with ESG Publisher  3. Republish
> > >> > >> to Gateway
> > >> > >> > > > > > with ESG Publisher
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Method B (quick-and-dirty, once you've 
> scripted it):
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > >  1. Change the ESG Publisher configuration  2.
> > >> > >> Patch THREDDS
> > >> > >> > > > > > catalogs  3. Patch the Gateway database
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > I'm happy to use Method B and contribute the
> > >> > >> > necessary scripts.
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Stephen.
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > ---
> > >> > >> > > > > > Stephen Pascoe  +44 (0)1235 445980 Centre of
> > >> > >> > Environmental Data
> > >> > >> > > > > > Archival STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory,
> > >> > >> Harwell Oxford,
> > >> > >> > > > > > Didcot
> > >> > >> > > > > > OX11 0QX, UK
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > >> > > > > > From: go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu 
> > >> > >> > > > > > [mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces at ucar.edu] On 
> Behalf Of 
> > >> > >> > > > > > martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk
> > >> > >> > > > > > Sent: 05 October 2011 09:23
> > >> > >> > > > > > To: go-essp-tech at ucar.edu
> > >> > >> > > > > > Subject: [Go-essp-tech] Incorrect dataset names
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > Hello,
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > A number of datasets, including some at BADC,
> > >> have been
> > >> > >> > > > > > published with "project=CMIP5 / IPCC Fifth
> > >> > >> Assessment Report,
> > >> > >> > > > > > .... " in the dataset name. A search for 
> "IPCC Fifth"
> > >> > >> > > > > > suggests we have 4021 datasets with this 
> error, from
> > >> > >CCCMA,
> > >> > >> > > > > > CNRM-CERFACS, CSIRO-QCCCE, IPSL, MOHC, 
> and NOAA-GFDL.
> > >> > >> > We should
> > >> > >> > > > > > develop a plan to correct this -- I guess 
> this means 
> > >> > >> > > > > > republishing the affected datasets,
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > > cheers,
> > >> > >> > > > > > Martin--
> > >> > >> > > > > > Scanned by iCritical.
> > >> > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > >> > > > > > GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list GO-ESSP-TECH at ucar.edu 
> > >> > >> > > > > > 
> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tec
> > >> > >> > > > > > h
> > >> > >> > > > > > --
> > >> > >> > > > > > Scanned by iCritical.
> > >> > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > >> > > > > > GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list GO-ESSP-TECH at ucar.edu 
> > >> > >> > > > > > 
> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tec
> > >> > >> > > > > > h
> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > >> > > > > GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list GO-ESSP-TECH at ucar.edu 
> > >> > >> > > > > 
> http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech
> > >> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > > > --
> > >> > >> > > > Bryan Lawrence
> > >> > >> > > > University of Reading:  Professor of Weather 
> and Climate
> > >> > >> > Computing.
> > >> > >> > > > National Centre for Atmospheric Science: Director of
> > >> > >> > Models and Data.
> > >> > >> > > > STFC: Director of the Centre for Environmental
> > >> Data Archival.
> > >> > >> > > > Ph: +44 118 3786507 or 1235 445012;
> > >> > >> > Web:home.badc.rl.ac.uk/lawrence
> > >> > >> > > >
> > >> > >> > >
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > --
> > >> > >> > Bryan Lawrence
> > >> > >> > University of Reading:  Professor of Weather and Climate
> > >> > >Computing.
> > >> > >> > National Centre for Atmospheric Science: Director 
> of Models
> > >> > >> and Data.
> > >> > >> > STFC: Director of the Centre for Environmental 
> Data Archival.
> > >> > >> > Ph: +44 118 3786507 or 1235 445012;
> > >> > >Web:home.badc.rl.ac.uk/lawrence
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> --
> > >> > >> Scanned by iCritical.
> > >> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Scanned by iCritical.
> > >>
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>

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