<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19190"></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffcc text=#000000>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Hello Gavin,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>I'm not sure I understand all of what you say here - I'm too
slow to keep up, sorry. I think you are basically happy for this issue of
"minimising the risk of users looking at 'deprecated CMIP5 data'" to
go on the agenda at the next telco. Is that right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Jamie</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=139084309-13032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Gavin M. Bell
[mailto:gavin@llnl.gov] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 12 March 2012 21:34<BR><B>To:</B>
Kettleborough, Jamie<BR><B>Cc:</B> Mark Morgan; Tobias Weigel; V Balaji;
go-essp-tech@ucar.edu; esgf-devel@lists.llnl.gov<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[Go-essp-tech] What is the risk that science is done using'deprecated'
data?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV></DIV>Hi, <BR><BR>IMHO, I think we need to simple discuss a quick
cost/benefit analysis of this endeavor. Why do we need this grammar?
What it enables? Why is that important? and then How would we go about doing
it... and what resources are involved. Basically, is the juice worth the
squeeze. The basic thinking I have on this is that it would be a good
thing to know the shape of the catalog in so far as the shape of it will
enable new capabilities. If the benefit of knowing the shape of this box
"only" makes life easier for those doing machinations at that level... then...
well, that is what we should find out. Is it on fire? Or is this a
Cassandra moment - as I have been having on this topic for over a year and a
half. Thus far it has not moved into the realm of "on fire" which leads
me to perhaps believe that this kind of thing is best left to a select and
motivated few that should go off and fix it and then report back so we all can
leverage it. I don't think there needs to be a lot of sausage makers
here. This is why I proposed that Stephen start a working group if one
is not already there. <BR><BR>Oops.. that reminds me, making a working
group page fell off my radar after the F2F... I will do that. For now I
recommend appending this task to that of the Information Architecture (Data
Model) Interface Group that Stephen is already the lead on. :-) How
serendipitous. :-)<BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://esgf.org/wiki/ESGFInterfaceGroups">http://esgf.org/wiki/ESGFInterfaceGroups</A><BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://esgf.org/wiki/ESGFInterfaceGroups/InformationArchitecture">http://esgf.org/wiki/ESGFInterfaceGroups/InformationArchitecture</A>
<BR><BR>On 3/12/12 5:41 AM, Kettleborough, Jamie wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid:E51EDFEBF10BE44BB4BDAF5FC2F024B90FB7FC2B@EXXMAIL02.desktop.frd.metoffice.com
type="cite">
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19190">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Hello,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>I'm not quite sure how to respond to all the replies to
this - I'm not sure I understand all the terms used for one thing - but
thanks to everyone for engaging in this discussion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>I think there is agreement that anything too new or
innovative on this should not be done until CMIP6+. *BUT* I think we
still have to ask whether we are happy with the current level of risk at
CMIP5, and if not what can we do about it? If we leave it all to
CMIP6+ then fine, but I *think* that is equivalent to an implied 'yes we can
live with this level of risk at CMIP5'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Gavin - I think you offered a slot on the Telco to talk
about this. I think that is a good idea - with the focus being on what
we can do for CMIP5. This may be more a project management type issue
rather than some deep technical discussion, but *my* feeling is its
sufficiently important that it is worth talking about it. (But I don't
have all the information, so can be ignored and I won't be
upset). Anyone agree?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Thanks again,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=032431412-12032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Jamie</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Mark Morgan<BR><B>Sent:</B> 12 March 2012
10:55<BR><B>To:</B> Tobias Weigel<BR><B>Cc:</B> V Balaji; <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Go-essp-tech] What is the risk that science is done using'deprecated'
data?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>Hi
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In relation to CMIP6+ there really needs to be stronger focus upon
<U>process</U>, i.e. what is the development process for resolving these
kind of problems. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>For this particular problem I am thinking particularly of test driven
development. I.E. after a <U>formal definition</U> of the problem
space, develop a <U>test framework</U> for testing possible solutions
prior to trying to implement a solution. This will ensure that you
have understood the problem space correctly whilst guaranteeing the
robustness of potential solution(s).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Mark </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 12 Mar 2012, at 11:41, Tobias Weigel wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>I'd be very much interested in such a discussion in ExArch, not
just because it provides a sane hashing methodology, but also because
this 'dataset essence' has a large overlap with information I would feel
is useful to attach directly to persistent identifiers. Might even be
exactly that, but might be a bit larger.<BR><BR>Best, Tobias<BR><BR>On
12.03.2012 11:17:31, V Balaji wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I like the idea -- in the CMIP6 timeframe, as
Estani reminds us:-) --<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">of compiling a list of invariants and things
about a dataset that can<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">change without the underlying data changing.
We have discussed in the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">past with Unidata an nc_chksum capability that
can hash or sum<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">specific data records for comparison, so that
we can omit superficial<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">changes from a sum. Remik Ziemlinski of GFDL
implemented nccmp<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">(<A href="http://nccmp.sourceforge.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://nccmp.sourceforge.net</A>) that allows
some of this capability,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">but it properly belongs in the netCDF base
libraries.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Happy to discuss this within ExArch as you
suggest. It's taking us<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">deep into metaphysical territory: a hash
representation of the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Platonic essence, the Atman, the soul of a
dataset.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:26 AM,<<A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A>>
wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Gavin,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">That would definitely help but I don't think
it's sufficient. How many of us would notice if a centre
republished the same dataset (same dataset_id and facet metadata)
with different checksums? Estani would I expect :-) but the
system itself wouldn't.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I would like to see a hash of invariants of
each dataset used as identifiers. For that we'd need to
strip-out all the information from a THREDDS catalog which might
legitimately change without changing the data: URL paths, service
endpoints, last-modified, etc., but keeping filenames, checksums and
some properties. Canonicalise a serialisiation then generate a
hash.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">We'd also need to really keep track of these
hashes. We have checksums and tracking_ids right now and are
under-utilising them.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Cheers,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Stephen.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 9 Mar 2012, at 05:05, Gavin M. Bell
wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hello,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">If we enforced checksums to be done as a
part of publication, then this would address this issue,
right?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 3/8/12 8:39 AM, <A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A><<A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A>>
wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Tobias, sorry I miss-typed your name
:-)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">S.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 16:00,<<A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A>><<A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Thomas,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">As you say, it's too late to do much
re-engineering of the system now -- we've attempted to put in place
various identifier systems and none of them are working particularly
well -- however I think there is another perspective to your
proposal:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">1. ESG/CMIP5 is deployed globally across
multiple administrative domains and each domain has the ability to
cut corners to get things done, e.g. replacing files silently
without changing identifiers.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">2. ESG/CMIP5 system is so complex that who'd
blame a sys-admin for doing #1 to get the data to scientists when
they need it. Any system that makes it impossible, or even
only difficult, to change the underlying data is going to be more
complex and difficult to administer than a system that doesn't,
unless that system was very rigorously designed, implemented and
tested.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Because of #1 I'm convinced that a
fit-for-purpose identifier system wouldn't use randomly generated
UUIDs but would take the GIT approach of hashing invariants of the
dataset so that any changes behind the scenes can be
detected.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Because of #2 I'm convinced that now is not
the time to start building more software to do this. We have
to stabilise the system and learn the lessons of CMIP5
first.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Cheers,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Stephen.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 15:32, Tobias Weigel
wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Jamie/All,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">these are important questions I have been
wondering about as well; we just had a small internal meeting
yesterday with Estani and Martina, so I'll try to sum some points up
here. I am not too familiar with the ESG publishing process, so I
can only guess that Stephen's #1 has something to do with the
bending of policies that are for pragmatic reasons not enforced in
the CMIP5 process. (My intuition is that *ideally* it should be
impossible to make data available without going through the whole
publication process. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding
this.)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Most of what I have been thinking about
however concerns point #2. I'd claim that the risk here should not
be underestimated; data consumers being unable to find the data they
need is bad ("the advanced search issue"), but users relying on
deprecated data - most likely without being aware of it - is
certainly dangerous for scientific
credibility.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">My suggestion to address this problem is to
use globally persistent identifiers (PIDs) that are automatically
assigned to data objects (and metadata etc.) on ESG-publication;
data should ideally not be known by its file name or system-internal
ID, but via a global identifier that never changes after it has been
published. Of course, this sounds like the DOIs, but these are
extremely coarse grained and very static. The idea is to attach
identifiers to the low-level entities and provide solutions to build
up a hierarchical ID system (virtual collections) to account for the
various layers used in our data. Such persistent identifiers should
then be placed prominently in any user interface dealing with
managed data. The important thing is: If data is updated, we don't
update the data behind identifier x, but assign a new identifier y
and create a typed link between these two (which may be the most
challenging part) and perhaps put a small annotation on x that this
data is depreca<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">ted. A clever user interface should then
redirect a user consistently to the latest version of a dataset if a
user accesses the old identifier.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">This does not make it impossible to use
deprecated data, but at least it raises the consumer's awareness of
the issue and lowers the barrier to re-retrieve valid
data.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">As for the point in time; I'd be certain
that it is too late now, but it is always a good idea to have plans
for future improvement.. :)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Best, Tobias<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Am 08.03.2012 13:06, schrieb Kettleborough,
Jamie:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Thanks for the replies on this - any other
replies are still very welcome.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Stephen - being selfish - we aren't too
worried about 2 as its less of an issue for us (we do a daily trawl
of thredds catalogues for new datasets), but I agree it is a problem
more generally. I don't have a feel for which of the problems
1-3 would minimise the risk most if you solved it. I think
making sure new data has a new version is a foundation
though.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Part of me wonders though whether its
already too late to really do anything with versioning in its
current form. *But* I may be overestimating the size of the
problem of new datasets appearing without versions being
updated.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Jamie<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">-----Original
Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">From: <A
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</A><<A
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</A>]
On Behalf Of Sébastien Denvil<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sent: 08 March 2012
10:41<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">To: <A href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</A><<A
href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] What is the risk
that science is<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">done using 'deprecated'
data?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Stephen, let me add a third
point:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">3. Users are aware of a new versions but
can't download files<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">so as to have a coherent set of
files.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">With respect to that point the p2p
transition (especially the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">attribut caching on the node) will be a
major step forward.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">GFDL just upgrad and we have an amazing
success rate of 98%.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">And I agree with
Ashish.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Regards.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sébastien<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Le 08/03/2012 11:34, <A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A><<A
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</A>>
a écrit :<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Jamie,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I can imagine there is a risk of papers
being written on<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">deprecated data in two
scenarios:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> 1. Data is being updated at datanodes
without creating a<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">new version<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> 2. Users are unaware of new versions
available and<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">therefore using<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">deprecated data<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Are you concerned about both of these
scenarios? Your<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">email seems to mainly address
#1.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Thanks,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Stephen.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 10:21, Kettleborough,
Jamie wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hello,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Does anyone have a feel for the current
level of risk that<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">analysists<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">are doing work (with the intention to
publish) on data<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">that has been<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">found to be wrong by the data providers and
so deprecated (in some<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">sense)?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">My feeling is that versioning isn't working
(that may be<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">putting it a<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">bit strongly. It is too easy for data
providers - in their<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">understandable drive to get their data out -
to have<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">updated files on<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">disk without publishing a new version.
How big a deal does anyone<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">think this is?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">If the risk that papers are being written
based on<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">deprecated data is<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">sufficiently large then is there an agreed
strategy for<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">coping with<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">this? Does it have implications for
the requirements of the data<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">publishing/delivery
system?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Thanks,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Jamie<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A><<A
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sébastien Denvil<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">IPSL, Pôle de modélisation du
climat<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">UPMC, Case 101, 4 place
Jussieu,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">75252 Paris Cedex
5<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Tour 45-55 2ème étage Bureau
209<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Tel: 33 1 44 27 21
10<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Fax: 33 1 44 27 39
02<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A><<A
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Tobias Weigel<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Department of Data
Management<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German
Climate Computing Center)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Bundesstr. 45a<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">20146 Hamburg<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Germany<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Tel.: +49 40 460094
104<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">E-Mail: <A href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">weigel@dkrz.de</A><<A
href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:weigel@dkrz.de</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Website: <A href="http://www.dkrz.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.dkrz.de</A><<A
href="http://www.dkrz.de/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.dkrz.de/</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Managing Director: Prof. Dr. Thomas
Ludwig<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sitz der Gesellschaft:
Hamburg<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB
39784<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A><<A
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Scanned by
iCritical.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A><<A
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Gavin M. Bell<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> "Never mistake a clear view for a
short distance."<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite"> -Paul
Saffo<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Scanned by
iCritical.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>-- <BR>Tobias
Weigel<BR><BR>Department of Data Management<BR>Deutsches
Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German Climate Computing Center)<BR>Bundesstr.
45a<BR>20146 Hamburg<BR>Germany<BR><BR>Tel.: +49 40 460094
104<BR>E-Mail: <A href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">weigel@dkrz.de</A><BR>Website: <A
href="http://www.dkrz.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.dkrz.de</A><BR><BR>Managing Director: Prof.
Dr. Thomas Ludwig<BR><BR>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg<BR>Amtsgericht
Hamburg HRB
39784<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>GO-ESSP-TECH
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</A><BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV>---------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Mark
Morgan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Software Architect /
Engineer</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Institut Pierre Simon
Laplace (IPSL),</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Université Pierre Marie
Curie,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>4 Place
Jussieu,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Tour 45-55, Salle
#207,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Paris 75005</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>France.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Tel : +33 (0) 1 44 27 49
10</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(84,0,0)" class=Apple-style-span>Email: <A
href="mailto:momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr"
moz-do-not-send="true">momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>---------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
Gavin M. Bell
Lawrence Livermore National Labs
--
"Never mistake a clear view for a short distance."
-Paul Saffo
(GPG Key - <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://rainbow.llnl.gov/dist/keys/gavin.asc">http://rainbow.llnl.gov/dist/keys/gavin.asc</A>)
A796 CE39 9C31 68A4 52A7 1F6B 66B7 B250 21D5 6D3E
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>