<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi<div><br></div><div>In relation to CMIP6+ there really needs to be stronger focus upon <u>process</u>, i.e. what is the development process for resolving these kind of problems. </div><div><br></div><div>For this particular problem I am thinking particularly of test driven development. I.E. after a <u>formal definition</u> of the problem space, develop a <u>test framework</u> for testing possible solutions prior to trying to implement a solution. This will ensure that you have understood the problem space correctly whilst guaranteeing the robustness of potential solution(s).</div><div><br></div><div>Mark </div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 12 Mar 2012, at 11:41, Tobias Weigel wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I'd be very much interested in such a discussion in ExArch, not just because it provides a sane hashing methodology, but also because this 'dataset essence' has a large overlap with information I would feel is useful to attach directly to persistent identifiers. Might even be exactly that, but might be a bit larger.<br><br>Best, Tobias<br><br>On 12.03.2012 11:17:31, V Balaji wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">I like the idea -- in the CMIP6 timeframe, as Estani reminds us:-) --<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of compiling a list of invariants and things about a dataset that can<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">change without the underlying data changing. We have discussed in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">past with Unidata an nc_chksum capability that can hash or sum<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">specific data records for comparison, so that we can omit superficial<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">changes from a sum. Remik Ziemlinski of GFDL implemented nccmp<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(<a href="http://nccmp.sourceforge.net">http://nccmp.sourceforge.net</a>) that allows some of this capability,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but it properly belongs in the netCDF base libraries.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Happy to discuss this within ExArch as you suggest. It's taking us<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">deep into metaphysical territory: a hash representation of the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Platonic essence, the Atman, the soul of a dataset.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:26 AM,<<a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Gavin,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">That would definitely help but I don't think it's sufficient. How many of us would notice if a centre republished the same dataset (same dataset_id and facet metadata) with different checksums? Estani would I expect :-) but the system itself wouldn't.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I would like to see a hash of invariants of each dataset used as identifiers. For that we'd need to strip-out all the information from a THREDDS catalog which might legitimately change without changing the data: URL paths, service endpoints, last-modified, etc., but keeping filenames, checksums and some properties. Canonicalise a serialisiation then generate a hash.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">We'd also need to really keep track of these hashes. We have checksums and tracking_ids right now and are under-utilising them.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 9 Mar 2012, at 05:05, Gavin M. Bell wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If we enforced checksums to be done as a part of publication, then this would address this issue, right?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 3/8/12 8:39 AM, <a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a><<a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tobias, sorry I miss-typed your name :-)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">S.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 16:00,<<a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>><<a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Thomas,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As you say, it's too late to do much re-engineering of the system now -- we've attempted to put in place various identifier systems and none of them are working particularly well -- however I think there is another perspective to your proposal:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1. ESG/CMIP5 is deployed globally across multiple administrative domains and each domain has the ability to cut corners to get things done, e.g. replacing files silently without changing identifiers.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">2. ESG/CMIP5 system is so complex that who'd blame a sys-admin for doing #1 to get the data to scientists when they need it. Any system that makes it impossible, or even only difficult, to change the underlying data is going to be more complex and difficult to administer than a system that doesn't, unless that system was very rigorously designed, implemented and tested.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Because of #1 I'm convinced that a fit-for-purpose identifier system wouldn't use randomly generated UUIDs but would take the GIT approach of hashing invariants of the dataset so that any changes behind the scenes can be detected.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Because of #2 I'm convinced that now is not the time to start building more software to do this. We have to stabilise the system and learn the lessons of CMIP5 first.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 15:32, Tobias Weigel wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Jamie/All,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">these are important questions I have been wondering about as well; we just had a small internal meeting yesterday with Estani and Martina, so I'll try to sum some points up here. I am not too familiar with the ESG publishing process, so I can only guess that Stephen's #1 has something to do with the bending of policies that are for pragmatic reasons not enforced in the CMIP5 process. (My intuition is that *ideally* it should be impossible to make data available without going through the whole publication process. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this.)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Most of what I have been thinking about however concerns point #2. I'd claim that the risk here should not be underestimated; data consumers being unable to find the data they need is bad ("the advanced search issue"), but users relying on deprecated data - most likely without being aware of it - is certainly dangerous for scientific credibility.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">My suggestion to address this problem is to use globally persistent identifiers (PIDs) that are automatically assigned to data objects (and metadata etc.) on ESG-publication; data should ideally not be known by its file name or system-internal ID, but via a global identifier that never changes after it has been published. Of course, this sounds like the DOIs, but these are extremely coarse grained and very static. The idea is to attach identifiers to the low-level entities and provide solutions to build up a hierarchical ID system (virtual collections) to account for the various layers used in our data. Such persistent identifiers should then be placed prominently in any user interface dealing with managed data. The important thing is: If data is updated, we don't update the data behind identifier x, but assign a new identifier y and create a typed link between these two (which may be the most challenging part) and perhaps put a small annotation on x that this data is depreca<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ted. A clever user interface should then redirect a user consistently to the latest version of a dataset if a user accesses the old identifier.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This does not make it impossible to use deprecated data, but at least it raises the consumer's awareness of the issue and lowers the barrier to re-retrieve valid data.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As for the point in time; I'd be certain that it is too late now, but it is always a good idea to have plans for future improvement.. :)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Best, Tobias<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Am 08.03.2012 13:06, schrieb Kettleborough, Jamie:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks for the replies on this - any other replies are still very welcome.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen - being selfish - we aren't too worried about 2 as its less of an issue for us (we do a daily trawl of thredds catalogues for new datasets), but I agree it is a problem more generally. I don't have a feel for which of the problems 1-3 would minimise the risk most if you solved it. I think making sure new data has a new version is a foundation though.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Part of me wonders though whether its already too late to really do anything with versioning in its current form. *But* I may be overestimating the size of the problem of new datasets appearing without versions being updated.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Jamie<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a><<a href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Sébastien Denvil<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sent: 08 March 2012 10:41<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a><<a href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] What is the risk that science is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">done using 'deprecated' data?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Stephen, let me add a third point:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">3. Users are aware of a new versions but can't download files<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so as to have a coherent set of files.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">With respect to that point the p2p transition (especially the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">attribut caching on the node) will be a major step forward.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GFDL just upgrad and we have an amazing success rate of 98%.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And I agree with Ashish.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Regards.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sébastien<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Le 08/03/2012 11:34, <a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a><<a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>> a écrit :<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Jamie,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I can imagine there is a risk of papers being written on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deprecated data in two scenarios:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 1. Data is being updated at datanodes without creating a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">new version<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 2. Users are unaware of new versions available and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">therefore using<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deprecated data<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Are you concerned about both of these scenarios? Your<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">email seems to mainly address #1.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 10:21, Kettleborough, Jamie wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Does anyone have a feel for the current level of risk that<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">analysists<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are doing work (with the intention to publish) on data<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that has been<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">found to be wrong by the data providers and so deprecated (in some<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sense)?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">My feeling is that versioning isn't working (that may be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">putting it a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bit strongly. It is too easy for data providers - in their<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">understandable drive to get their data out - to have<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">updated files on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">disk without publishing a new version. How big a deal does anyone<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think this is?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If the risk that papers are being written based on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deprecated data is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sufficiently large then is there an agreed strategy for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">coping with<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this? Does it have implications for the requirements of the data<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">publishing/delivery system?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Jamie<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sébastien Denvil<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">IPSL, Pôle de modélisation du climat<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">UPMC, Case 101, 4 place Jussieu,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">75252 Paris Cedex 5<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tour 45-55 2ème étage Bureau 209<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tel: 33 1 44 27 21 10<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Fax: 33 1 44 27 39 02<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tobias Weigel<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Department of Data Management<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German Climate Computing Center)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Bundesstr. 45a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">20146 Hamburg<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Germany<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tel.: +49 40 460094 104<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">E-Mail: <a href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">weigel@dkrz.de</a><<a href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">mailto:weigel@dkrz.de</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Website: <a href="http://www.dkrz.de">www.dkrz.de</a><<a href="http://www.dkrz.de/">http://www.dkrz.de/</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Managing Director: Prof. Dr. Thomas Ludwig<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 39784<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Scanned by iCritical.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gavin M. Bell<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> "Never mistake a clear view for a short distance."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> -Paul Saffo<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Scanned by iCritical.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br>-- <br>Tobias Weigel<br><br>Department of Data Management<br>Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German Climate Computing Center)<br>Bundesstr. 45a<br>20146 Hamburg<br>Germany<br><br>Tel.: +49 40 460094 104<br>E-Mail: <a href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">weigel@dkrz.de</a><br>Website: <a href="http://www.dkrz.de">www.dkrz.de</a><br><br>Managing Director: Prof. Dr. Thomas Ludwig<br><br>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg<br>Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 39784<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br>http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>---------------------------------------------------</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Mark Morgan</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Software Architect / Engineer</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Institut Pierre Simon Laplace (IPSL),</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Université Pierre Marie Curie,</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">4 Place Jussieu,</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Tour 45-55, Salle #207,</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Paris 75005</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">France.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Tel : +33 (0) 1 44 27 49 10</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Email: <a href="mailto:momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr">momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr</a></span></div><div>---------------------------------------------------</div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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