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:-)<br>
<br>
I smell an O'Reilly book coming together here... you've got very
cool buzz terms... very marketable.<br>
A lot more useless things have been wrapped in nice jargon and sold
(i.e. REST).<br>
Hmmm....<br>
<br>
:-)<br>
<br>
On 3/12/12 3:58 AM, Mark Morgan wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:E71BD749-19AC-4D62-841B-1C0D93AA374C@ipsl.jussieu.fr"
type="cite">@balaji I.E resolution of a dataset's "Atman"
requires developing a suitable alembic (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alembic">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alembic</a>)
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 12 Mar 2012, at 11:55, Mark Morgan wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Hi
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In relation to CMIP6+ there really needs to be
stronger focus upon <u>process</u>, i.e. what is the
development process for resolving these kind of
problems. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For this particular problem I am thinking
particularly of test driven development. I.E. after a <u>formal
definition</u> of the problem space, develop a <u>test
framework</u> for testing possible solutions prior to
trying to implement a solution. This will ensure that
you have understood the problem space correctly whilst
guaranteeing the robustness of potential solution(s).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 12 Mar 2012, at 11:41, Tobias Weigel wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>I'd be very much interested in such a
discussion in ExArch, not just because it provides
a sane hashing methodology, but also because this
'dataset essence' has a large overlap with
information I would feel is useful to attach
directly to persistent identifiers. Might even be
exactly that, but might be a bit larger.<br>
<br>
Best, Tobias<br>
<br>
On 12.03.2012 11:17:31, V Balaji wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I like the idea -- in the
CMIP6 timeframe, as Estani reminds us:-) --<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">of compiling a list of
invariants and things about a dataset that can<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">change without the
underlying data changing. We have discussed in
the<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">past with Unidata an
nc_chksum capability that can hash or sum<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">specific data records for
comparison, so that we can omit superficial<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">changes from a sum. Remik
Ziemlinski of GFDL implemented nccmp<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">(<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://nccmp.sourceforge.net/">http://nccmp.sourceforge.net</a>)
that allows some of this capability,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">but it properly belongs in
the netCDF base libraries.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Happy to discuss this
within ExArch as you suggest. It's taking us<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">deep into metaphysical
territory: a hash representation of the<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Platonic essence, the
Atman, the soul of a dataset.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at
2:26 AM,<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Gavin,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">That would definitely
help but I don't think it's sufficient. How
many of us would notice if a centre
republished the same dataset (same dataset_id
and facet metadata) with different checksums?
Estani would I expect :-) but the system
itself wouldn't.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">I would like to see a
hash of invariants of each dataset used as
identifiers. For that we'd need to strip-out
all the information from a THREDDS catalog
which might legitimately change without
changing the data: URL paths, service
endpoints, last-modified, etc., but keeping
filenames, checksums and some properties.
Canonicalise a serialisiation then generate a
hash.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">We'd also need to really
keep track of these hashes. We have checksums
and tracking_ids right now and are
under-utilising them.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On 9 Mar 2012, at 05:05,
Gavin M. Bell wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hello,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">If we enforced checksums
to be done as a part of publication, then this
would address this issue, right?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On 3/8/12 8:39 AM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Tobias, sorry I
miss-typed your name :-)<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">S.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at
16:00,<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"> wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Thomas,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">As you say, it's too
late to do much re-engineering of the system
now -- we've attempted to put in place various
identifier systems and none of them are
working particularly well -- however I think
there is another perspective to your proposal:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">1. ESG/CMIP5 is deployed
globally across multiple administrative
domains and each domain has the ability to cut
corners to get things done, e.g. replacing
files silently without changing identifiers.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">2. ESG/CMIP5 system is
so complex that who'd blame a sys-admin for
doing #1 to get the data to scientists when
they need it. Any system that makes it
impossible, or even only difficult, to change
the underlying data is going to be more
complex and difficult to administer than a
system that doesn't, unless that system was
very rigorously designed, implemented and
tested.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Because of #1 I'm
convinced that a fit-for-purpose identifier
system wouldn't use randomly generated UUIDs
but would take the GIT approach of hashing
invariants of the dataset so that any changes
behind the scenes can be detected.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Because of #2 I'm
convinced that now is not the time to start
building more software to do this. We have to
stabilise the system and learn the lessons of
CMIP5 first.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 15:32,
Tobias Weigel wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Jamie/All,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">these are important
questions I have been wondering about as well;
we just had a small internal meeting yesterday
with Estani and Martina, so I'll try to sum
some points up here. I am not too familiar
with the ESG publishing process, so I can only
guess that Stephen's #1 has something to do
with the bending of policies that are for
pragmatic reasons not enforced in the CMIP5
process. (My intuition is that *ideally* it
should be impossible to make data available
without going through the whole publication
process. Please correct me if I am
misunderstanding this.)<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Most of what I have been
thinking about however concerns point #2. I'd
claim that the risk here should not be
underestimated; data consumers being unable to
find the data they need is bad ("the advanced
search issue"), but users relying on
deprecated data - most likely without being
aware of it - is certainly dangerous for
scientific credibility.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">My suggestion to address
this problem is to use globally persistent
identifiers (PIDs) that are automatically
assigned to data objects (and metadata etc.)
on ESG-publication; data should ideally not be
known by its file name or system-internal ID,
but via a global identifier that never changes
after it has been published. Of course, this
sounds like the DOIs, but these are extremely
coarse grained and very static. The idea is to
attach identifiers to the low-level entities
and provide solutions to build up a
hierarchical ID system (virtual collections)
to account for the various layers used in our
data. Such persistent identifiers should then
be placed prominently in any user interface
dealing with managed data. The important thing
is: If data is updated, we don't update the
data behind identifier x, but assign a new
identifier y and create a typed link between
these two (which may be the most challenging
part) and perhaps put a small annotation on x
that this data is depreca<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">ted. A clever user
interface should then redirect a user
consistently to the latest version of a
dataset if a user accesses the old identifier.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">This does not make it
impossible to use deprecated data, but at
least it raises the consumer's awareness of
the issue and lowers the barrier to
re-retrieve valid data.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">As for the point in
time; I'd be certain that it is too late now,
but it is always a good idea to have plans for
future improvement.. :)<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Best, Tobias<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Am 08.03.2012 13:06,
schrieb Kettleborough, Jamie:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Thanks for the replies
on this - any other replies are still very
welcome.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Stephen - being selfish
- we aren't too worried about 2 as its less of
an issue for us (we do a daily trawl of
thredds catalogues for new datasets), but I
agree it is a problem more generally. I don't
have a feel for which of the problems 1-3
would minimise the risk most if you solved it.
I think making sure new data has a new
version is a foundation though.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Part of me wonders
though whether its already too late to really
do anything with versioning in its current
form. *But* I may be overestimating the size
of the problem of new datasets appearing
without versions being updated.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Jamie<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">-----Original
Message-----<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a>]
On Behalf Of Sébastien Denvil<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Sent: 08 March 2012
10:41<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re:
[Go-essp-tech] What is the risk that science
is<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">done using 'deprecated'
data?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Stephen, let me add a
third point:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">3. Users are aware of a
new versions but can't download files<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">so as to have a coherent
set of files.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">With respect to that
point the p2p transition (especially the<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">attribut caching on the
node) will be a major step forward.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">GFDL just upgrad and we
have an amazing success rate of 98%.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">And I agree with Ashish.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Regards.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Sébastien<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Le 08/03/2012 11:34, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Jamie,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">I can imagine there is a
risk of papers being written on<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">deprecated data in two
scenarios:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"> 1. Data is being
updated at datanodes without creating a<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">new version<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"> 2. Users are unaware
of new versions available and<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">therefore using<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">deprecated data<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Are you concerned about
both of these scenarios? Your<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">email seems to mainly
address #1.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 10:21,
Kettleborough, Jamie wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hello,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Does anyone have a feel
for the current level of risk that<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">analysists<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">are doing work (with the
intention to publish) on data<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">that has been<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">found to be wrong by the
data providers and so deprecated (in some<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">sense)?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">My feeling is that
versioning isn't working (that may be<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">putting it a<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">bit strongly. It is too
easy for data providers - in their<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">understandable drive to
get their data out - to have<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">updated files on<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">disk without publishing
a new version. How big a deal does anyone<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">think this is?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">If the risk that papers
are being written based on<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">deprecated data is<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">sufficiently large then
is there an agreed strategy for<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">coping with<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">this? Does it have
implications for the requirements of the data<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">publishing/delivery
system?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Jamie<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Sébastien Denvil<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">IPSL, Pôle de
modélisation du climat<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">UPMC, Case 101, 4 place
Jussieu,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">75252 Paris Cedex 5<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Tour 45-55 2ème étage
Bureau 209<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Tel: 33 1 44 27 21 10<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Fax: 33 1 44 27 39 02<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Tobias Weigel<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Department of Data
Management<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Deutsches
Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German Climate
Computing Center)<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Bundesstr. 45a<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">20146 Hamburg<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Germany<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Tel.: +49 40 460094 104<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">E-Mail: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">weigel@dkrz.de</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">mailto:weigel@dkrz.de</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Website: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.dkrz.de/">www.dkrz.de</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.dkrz.de/">http://www.dkrz.de/</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Managing Director: Prof.
Dr. Thomas Ludwig<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Sitz der Gesellschaft:
Hamburg<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB
39784<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Scanned by iCritical.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Gavin M. Bell<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"> "Never mistake a clear
view for a short distance."<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"> -Paul
Saffo<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Scanned by iCritical.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing
list<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Tobias Weigel<br>
<br>
Department of Data Management<br>
Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German Climate
Computing Center)<br>
Bundesstr. 45a<br>
20146 Hamburg<br>
Germany<br>
<br>
Tel.: +49 40 460094 104<br>
E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">weigel@dkrz.de</a><br>
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.dkrz.de/">www.dkrz.de</a><br>
<br>
Managing Director: Prof. Dr. Thomas Ludwig<br>
<br>
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg<br>
Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 39784<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
font-size: medium;">
<div>---------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Mark Morgan</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Software Architect / Engineer</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Institut Pierre Simon Laplace (IPSL),</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Université Pierre Marie Curie,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">4 Place Jussieu,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Tour 45-55, Salle #207,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Paris 75005</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">France.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Tel : +33 (0) 1 44 27 49 10</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);"></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84,
0, 0);">Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr">momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr</a></span></div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
font-size: medium;">
<div>---------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);">Mark Morgan</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Software Architect / Engineer</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Institut Pierre Simon Laplace (IPSL),</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Université Pierre Marie Curie,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">4 Place Jussieu,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Tour 45-55, Salle #207,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Paris 75005</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">France.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Tel : +33 (0) 1 44 27 49 10</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0,
0);"></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:
rgb(84, 0, 0);">Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr">momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr</a></span></div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Gavin M. Bell
--
"Never mistake a clear view for a short distance."
-Paul Saffo
</pre>
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</html>