<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Martin<div><br></div><div>This problem space seems suitable for EXARCH. I.E. setting up a digital identication service. This service would be very long term infrastructure and thus would need to scale to several billions of identifiers plus associated metadata references.</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>On 8 Mar 2012, at 17:18, <<a href="mailto:martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk">martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk</a>> <<a href="mailto:martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk">martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I agree, particularly on the last point.<br><br>There are a lot of things which could be improved. From a software developers point of view, getting the data providers and data users to agree a set of requirements before starting development would be a good idea -- but we obviously missed the chance to do that, if it ever existed, by several years,<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a> [mailto:go-essp-tech-<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:bounces@ucar.edu">bounces@ucar.edu</a>] On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sent: 08 March 2012 16:01<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">weigel@dkrz.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cc: <a href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] What is the risk that science is done<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">using 'deprecated' data?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Thomas,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As you say, it's too late to do much re-engineering of the system now<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- we've attempted to put in place various identifier systems and none<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of them are working particularly well -- however I think there is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">another perspective to your proposal:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1. ESG/CMIP5 is deployed globally across multiple administrative<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">domains and each domain has the ability to cut corners to get things<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">done, e.g. replacing files silently without changing identifiers.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">2. ESG/CMIP5 system is so complex that who'd blame a sys-admin for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">doing #1 to get the data to scientists when they need it. Any system<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that makes it impossible, or even only difficult, to change the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">underlying data is going to be more complex and difficult to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">administer than a system that doesn't, unless that system was very<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">rigorously designed, implemented and tested.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Because of #1 I'm convinced that a fit-for-purpose identifier system<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wouldn't use randomly generated UUIDs but would take the GIT approach<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of hashing invariants of the dataset so that any changes behind the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">scenes can be detected.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Because of #2 I'm convinced that now is not the time to start building<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">more software to do this. We have to stabilise the system and learn<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the lessons of CMIP5 first.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 15:32, Tobias Weigel wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Jamie/All,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">these are important questions I have been wondering about as well;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">we just had a small internal meeting yesterday with Estani and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Martina, so I'll try to sum some points up here. I am not too familiar<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with the ESG publishing process, so I can only guess that Stephen's #1<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">has something to do with the bending of policies that are for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">pragmatic reasons not enforced in the CMIP5 process. (My intuition is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that *ideally* it should be impossible to make data available without<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">going through the whole publication process. Please correct me if I am<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">misunderstanding this.)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Most of what I have been thinking about however concerns point #2.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'd claim that the risk here should not be underestimated; data<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">consumers being unable to find the data they need is bad ("the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">advanced search issue"), but users relying on deprecated data - most<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">likely without being aware of it - is certainly dangerous for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">scientific credibility.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">My suggestion to address this problem is to use globally persistent<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">identifiers (PIDs) that are automatically assigned to data objects<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(and metadata etc.) on ESG-publication; data should ideally not be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">known by its file name or system-internal ID, but via a global<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">identifier that never changes after it has been published. Of course,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this sounds like the DOIs, but these are extremely coarse grained and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">very static. The idea is to attach identifiers to the low-level<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">entities and provide solutions to build up a hierarchical ID system<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(virtual collections) to account for the various layers used in our<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">data. Such persistent identifiers should then be placed prominently in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">any user interface dealing with managed data. The important thing is:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If data is updated, we don't update the data behind identifier x, but<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">assign a new identifier y and create a typed link between these two<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(which may be the most challenging part) and perhaps put a small<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">annotation on x that this data is deprecated. A clever user interface<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">should then redirect a user consistently to the latest version of a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">dataset if a user accesses the old identifier.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This does not make it impossible to use deprecated data, but at<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">least it raises the consumer's awareness of the issue and lowers the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">barrier to re-retrieve valid data.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As for the point in time; I'd be certain that it is too late now,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">but it is always a good idea to have plans for future improvement.. :)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Best, Tobias<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Am 08.03.2012 13:06, schrieb Kettleborough, Jamie:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks for the replies on this - any other replies are still very<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">welcome.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen - being selfish - we aren't too worried about 2 as its less<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of an issue for us (we do a daily trawl of thredds catalogues for new<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">datasets), but I agree it is a problem more generally. I don't have a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">feel for which of the problems 1-3 would minimise the risk most if you<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">solved it. I think making sure new data has a new version is a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">foundation though.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Part of me wonders though whether its already too late to really do<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">anything with versioning in its current form. *But* I may be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">overestimating the size of the problem of new datasets appearing<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">without versions being updated.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Jamie<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:go-essp-tech-bounces@ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Sébastien<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Denvil<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sent: 08 March 2012 10:41<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [Go-essp-tech] What is the risk that science is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">done using 'deprecated' data?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Stephen, let me add a third point:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">3. Users are aware of a new versions but can't download files<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so as to have a coherent set of files.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">With respect to that point the p2p transition (especially the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">attribut caching on the node) will be a major step forward.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GFDL just upgrad and we have an amazing success rate of 98%.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And I agree with Ashish.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Regards.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sébastien<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Le 08/03/2012 11:34, <a href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a> a écrit :<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Jamie,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I can imagine there is a risk of papers being written on<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deprecated data in two scenarios:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 1. Data is being updated at datanodes without creating a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">new version<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 2. Users are unaware of new versions available and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">therefore using<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deprecated data<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Are you concerned about both of these scenarios? Your<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">email seems to mainly address #1.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Stephen.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 8 Mar 2012, at 10:21, Kettleborough, Jamie wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Does anyone have a feel for the current level of risk that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">analysists<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are doing work (with the intention to publish) on data<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that has been<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">found to be wrong by the data providers and so deprecated (in<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">some<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sense)?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">My feeling is that versioning isn't working (that may be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">putting it a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bit strongly. It is too easy for data providers - in their<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">understandable drive to get their data out - to have<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">updated files on<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">disk without publishing a new version. How big a deal does<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">anyone<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think this is?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If the risk that papers are being written based on<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deprecated data is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sufficiently large then is there an agreed strategy for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">coping with<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this? Does it have implications for the requirements of the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">data<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">publishing/delivery system?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Jamie<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sébastien Denvil<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">IPSL, Pôle de modélisation du climat<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">UPMC, Case 101, 4 place Jussieu,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">75252 Paris Cedex 5<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tour 45-55 2ème étage Bureau 209<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tel: 33 1 44 27 21 10<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Fax: 33 1 44 27 39 02<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tobias Weigel<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Department of Data Management<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (German Climate Computing Center)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Bundesstr. 45a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">20146 Hamburg<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Germany<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tel.: +49 40 460094 104<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">E-Mail: <a href="mailto:weigel@dkrz.de">weigel@dkrz.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Website: <a href="http://www.dkrz.de">www.dkrz.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Managing Director: Prof. Dr. Thomas Ludwig<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 39784<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Scanned by iCritical.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><br></blockquote></blockquote>-- <br>Scanned by iCritical.<br>_______________________________________________<br>GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><br>http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>---------------------------------------------------</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Mark Morgan</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Software Architect / Engineer</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Institut Pierre Simon Laplace (IPSL),</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Université Pierre Marie Curie,</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">4 Place Jussieu,</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Tour 45-55, Salle #207,</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Paris 75005</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">France.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Tel : +33 (0) 1 44 27 49 10</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(84, 0, 0); ">Email: <a href="mailto:momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr">momipsl@ipsl.jussieu.fr</a></span></div><div>---------------------------------------------------</div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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