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    Hi,<br>
    <br>
    On 01/06/2011 18:24, Estanislao Gonzalez wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:4DE667B9.8010103@dkrz.de" type="cite">
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      Hi,<br>
      <br>
      I read the magic word 'philosophical', so here's my 2c:<br>
      <br>
      we shouldn't forget the users don't care about files... they care
      only about data. <br>
      For some (maybe even most) of our <b>present </b>users the files
      we provide are perfect, for others it's a nightmare they have to
      cope with (because of the file format, etc). <br>
    </blockquote>
    we need precise categories of users. We don't have a single profile
    of users. We have at least 3 large categories WG1, WG2, WG3. <br>
    <br>
    IMHO present users (WG1, but not only) do care about files and
    dramatically about files. They will care about data (and dataset)
    when performance access to aggregation over internet will compete
    with filesystem access performance. As Gavin said this is not
    impossible BUT this will imply a CERN like funded project.<br>
    <br>
    Excellent topic for a future telco I would say.<br>
    <br>
    Regards.<br>
    S&eacute;bastien<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:4DE667B9.8010103@dkrz.de" type="cite"> So, the
      bottom line should be, again, users want to search for data, not
      files. And worse yet, they don't want to search the way we like to
      think about data but <b>theirs</b>. A dataset might sound great
      to us, but try to explain to somebody who wants to get the mean
      global temperature for all models how <b>we </b>think he/she
      should do it... at the end one <b>double </b>value per model,
      right?&nbsp; :-)<br>
      <br>
      In my opinion OpenDAP (or something similar) is the only way to
      go... it would be great if it could act on an <b>archive </b>wide


      aggregation without any performance hit. Maybe some day...<br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      Estani<br>
      <br>
      Am 01.06.2011 17:55, schrieb Cinquini, Luca (3880):
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:D5BB1011-213E-42A2-AB8A-23E3E23A3D39@jpl.nasa.gov"
        type="cite"><base href="x-msg://39/">Hi Stephen:
        <div><br>
          <div>
            <div>On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:33 AM, &lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>&gt;


              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
                style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
                Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
                font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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                text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
                word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
                <div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:
                  break-word;" lang="EN-GB">
                  <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi
                        Luca,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
                        don't think we should rush to implement before
                        we understand what's being suggested.&nbsp;</span></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </span></blockquote>
            <div>Well that is how the system already works: index all
              metadata found in the catalogs. I didn't mean to rush
              anything :).</div>
            <br>
            <blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
                style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
                Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
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                word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
                <div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:
                  break-word;" lang="EN-GB">
                  <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
                        From my first reading of your email you seem to
                        contradict yourself: p2p search doesn't index
                        files but Charles wants you to enhance the
                        "search for files".&nbsp; I clearly don't understand
                        what is being indexed.&nbsp; From what you say I am
                        guessing that the indexer grabs all
                        &lt;property&gt; elements whether they are
                        parents of a top-level &lt;dataset&gt; element,
                        a file-level &lt;dataset&gt; element or a
                        &nbsp;&lt;metadata&gt; element.</span></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </span></blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            Sorry for being confusing: the system already indexes the
            full content of THREDDS catalogs into records of type
            Dataset and File. Right now, the information is NOT
            propagated from Dataset to Files. We could do so to make the
            search more Files more powerful: this will allow you to
            search for Files by employing metadata that is defined at
            the Dataset level.<br>
            <blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
                style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
                Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
                font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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                word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
                <div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:
                  break-word;" lang="EN-GB">
                  <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I'm


                        wary of the approach of propagating all metadata
                        to all levels of the system.&nbsp; My instinct is we
                        should decide what belongs at the dataset level
                        and stick with it.</span></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </span></blockquote>
            That's why we haven't done it so far.... It's a
            philosophical decision...</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>thanks, Luca</div>
          <div><br>
            <blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
                style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
                Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
                font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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                text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
                word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
                <div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:
                  break-word;" lang="EN-GB">
                  <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stephen.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                          style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                          Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">---<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                          style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                          Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stephen
                          Pascoe&nbsp; +44 (0)1235 445980<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                          style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                          Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Centre of
                          Environmental Data Archival<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                          style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                          Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">STFC
                          Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Harwell
                          Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                    </div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                        Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border-style: solid none none;
                        border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223);
                        padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Tahoma,sans-serif;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                            Tahoma,sans-serif;" lang="EN-US"><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Cinquini,


                            Luca (3880) [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              href="mailto:Luca.Cinquini@jpl.nasa.gov">mailto:Luca.Cinquini@jpl.nasa.gov</a>]<span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                            <b>Sent:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>01
                            June 2011 16:18<br>
                            <b>To:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Pascoe,


                            Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)<br>
                            <b>Cc:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:Roland.Schweitzer@noaa.gov"
                              style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                              underline;">Roland.Schweitzer@noaa.gov</a>;<span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:esg-node-dev@lists.llnl.gov"
                              style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                              underline;">esg-node-dev@lists.llnl.gov</a>;<span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu"
                              style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                              underline;">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b><span
                              class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re:
                            [esg-node-dev] Use of &lt;metadata&gt;
                            element in THREDDS catalogs<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Hi
                      Stephen,<o:p></o:p></div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
                          class="apple-tab-span">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
                            class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>to


                        answer some of your questions...<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">o
                        The p2p index will harvest all properties in the
                        THREDDS catalogs. Infact, I was able to run a
                        quick job and ingest that catalog in our
                        prototype system - you can search for "cordex"
                        at this URL:<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://esg-datanode.jpl.nasa.gov/esgf-web-fe/"
                          style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                          underline;">http://esg-datanode.jpl.nasa.gov/esgf-web-fe/</a><o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">As
                        you can see, I have defined two facets:
                        "CORDEX_domain" and "Frequency" (upper case!)
                        that relate to the metadata in that catalog. As
                        I was mentioning, the metadata just flows
                        through.<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">o
                        Note that I think some of the metadata property
                        names should really be lower case, instead of
                        upper case.... at least that's the CMIP5
                        convention. Off course we could change the case
                        while parsing the catalogs<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">o
                        Your last point about inheriting metadata is
                        exactly what we were discussing with Charles and
                        others in previous days. Charles asked that, in
                        order to make the search for files more
                        powerful, we tag all files that belong to a
                        dataset with the properties that belong to the
                        dataset: this way, you could make a search for
                        files subject to the constraints experiment=X,
                        frequency=Y and model=Z. This is something that
                        is not difficult to do, but we haven't done yet
                        because it means "interpreting" the catalogs as
                        opposed to just "parsing" them. But it looks
                        like there is enough momentum behind this
                        requirement that we should go ahead and do it...<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">o
                        Finally, note that so far the p2p search only
                        looks for Datasets - this is to limit the number
                        of results. We could as well look for Files, if
                        we wanted, from the web interface.<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">thanks,


                        Luca<o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt;">On Jun 1, 2011, at 7:59
                            AM, &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
                              style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                              underline;">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a>&gt;


                            wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
                        </div>
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><br>
                          <br>
                          <o:p></o:p></div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">(note I CC'd<span
                                  class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:gonzalez@dkrz.de"
                                  style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                  underline;">gonzalez@dkrz.de</a><span
                                  class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>by


                                mistake -- I meant go-essp)</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Roland,</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I suppose what
                                I'm getting at is would the Gateway
                                detect driving_model_id=ERAINT should
                                result in a facet value for that dataset
                                or just ignore it.&nbsp; Also I think the P2P
                                index node will index files and datasets
                                separately.&nbsp; In theory it should
                                therefore include this facet to both the
                                dataset and all files it contains but
                                will it now and should it in the future?</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">More
                                generally, do we want to use this
                                inheritance feature for key/value pairs
                                that result in facets in our user
                                interfaces and search APIs?&nbsp; This gets
                                to an underlying design decision about
                                what information we expose at the file
                                level and what at the dataset level.&nbsp; It
                                is the case that each CMIP5 file has a
                                model_id but this property isn't exposed
                                in the THREDDS as file properties, only
                                dataset properties.</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers,</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stephen.</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt;"><span
                                  style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                                  Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">---</span><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt;"><span
                                  style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                                  Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stephen

                                  Pascoe&nbsp; +44 (0)1235 445980</span><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt;"><span
                                  style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                                  Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Centre

                                  of Environmental Data Archival</span><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt;"><span
                                  style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:
                                  Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">STFC

                                  Rutherford Appleton Laboratory,
                                  Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11 0QX, UK</span><span
                                  style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="border-style: solid none none;
                              padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
                              <div>
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt;"><b><span
                                      style="font-size: 10pt;
                                      font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;"
                                      lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                                    class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                      style="font-size: 10pt;
                                      font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;"
                                      lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span
                                    style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                    Tahoma,sans-serif;" lang="EN-US">Roland


                                    Schweitzer [<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                      href="mailto:Roland.Schweitzer@noaa.gov">mailto:Roland.Schweitzer@noaa.gov</a>]<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                                    <b>Sent:</b><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>01


                                    June 2011 14:49<br>
                                    <b>To:</b><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Pascoe,


                                    Stephen (STFC,RAL,RALSP)<br>
                                    <b>Cc:</b><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:esg-node-dev@lists.llnl.gov"
                                      style="color: blue;
                                      text-decoration: underline;">esg-node-dev@lists.llnl.gov</a>;<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:gonzalez@dkrz.de"
                                      style="color: blue;
                                      text-decoration: underline;">gonzalez@dkrz.de</a><br>
                                    <b>Subject:</b><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re:


                                    [esg-node-dev] Use of
                                    &lt;metadata&gt; element in THREDDS
                                    catalogs</span><span
                                    style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">Hi All,<br>
                                <br>
                                I agree that we need to formalize an ESG
                                profile.<span
                                  class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                                <br>
                                To that end, the THREDDS XML schema
                                allows for the inheritance of metadata
                                to be controlled by an attribute.&nbsp; And
                                the schema allows for more than one
                                &lt;metadata&gt; element with different
                                inheritance in a particular
                                &lt;dataset&gt;.&nbsp; Perhaps all that is
                                needed is to get the inheritance right.<br>
                                <br>
                                But, isn't it the case in the example
                                you sent that the inheritance is in fact
                                correct.&nbsp; A variable in this data set
                                has the property
                                driving_model_id=ERAINT, for example.&nbsp;
                                What are the properties that were added
                                that should not be inherited?&nbsp;<span
                                  class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                                <br>
                                Roland<br>
                                <br>
                                On 06/01/2011 04:18 AM,<span
                                  class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk"
                                  style="color: blue; text-decoration:
                                  underline;">stephen.pascoe@stfc.ac.uk</a><span
                                  class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">I've just received an
                                excellent example of why we need to
                                formalise an ESG profile for THREDDS
                                catalogs.&nbsp; Henrik Wiberg has added some
                                extra THREDDS properties to support the
                                CORDEX project (see the attached email
                                for links).&nbsp; He's put these properties
                                in a &lt;metadata&gt; element within the
                                top-level dataset element.&nbsp; This is
                                valid THREDDS but I'm not sure what ESG
                                would do with it.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">Properties in
                                &lt;metadata&gt; elements implies they
                                apply to all dataset elements contained
                                within the current one.&nbsp; Now the new
                                search engine will index properties in
                                files as well as datasets we need to
                                decide whether we are going to support
                                this feature of THREDDS.&nbsp; My guess is
                                that the Gateway and P2P index wouldn't
                                process this right.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">My instinct is that there
                                should be a clear distinction between
                                properties associated with a dataset and
                                those associated with the files it
                                contains -- therefore in this case we'd
                                need to move the properties out of the
                                metadata section.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">Stephen.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color:
                                black;">---</span><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri,sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color:
                                black;">Stephen Pascoe&nbsp; +44 (0)1235
                                445980</span><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color:
                                black;">Centre of Environmental Data
                                Archival</span><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color:
                                black;">STFC Rutherford Appleton
                                Laboratory, Harwell Oxford, Didcot OX11
                                0QX, UK</span><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="color:
                                black;">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm;
                            font-size: 12pt;"><span style="color:
                              black;">--<span
                                class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                              Scanned by iCritical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="color:
                                black;">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt;"><span style="color:
                                black;">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:
                                11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                                color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                          <p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm;
                            font-size: 12pt;"><span style="color:
                              black;">--<span
                                class="apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                              Scanned by iCritical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                        </div>
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm;
                    font-size: 12pt;">--<span
                      class="Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
                    Scanned by iCritical.</p>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
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</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Estanislao Gonzalez

Max-Planck-Institut f&uuml;r Meteorologie (MPI-M)
Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum (DKRZ) - German Climate Computing Centre
Room 108 - Bundesstrasse 45a, D-20146 Hamburg, Germany

Phone:   +49 (40) 46 00 94-126
E-Mail:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gonzalez@dkrz.de">gonzalez@dkrz.de</a> </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
S&eacute;bastien Denvil
IPSL, P&ocirc;le de mod&eacute;lisation du climat
UPMC, Case 101, 4 place Jussieu,
75252 Paris Cedex 5

Tour 45-55 2&egrave;me &eacute;tage Bureau 209
Tel: 33 1 44 27 21 10
Fax: 33 1 44 27 39 02
</pre>
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