<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<font face="Times New Roman">Couldn't we simply say that we certify
that CMIP5 data conforms to the CF 1.4 standard except that the
cell_measures </font>variables may be found in an external file,
rather than the referencing file. That way the data will pass the
CMIP5 QC checks which don't include requiring the cell_measures
variables to be found in the referencing file. I think the
decision between cell_measures and ext_cell_measures should be based
on which one will be most useful to the users. In CMIP5, users
should be able to find the cell areas even without cell_measures, so
I'm not sure this decision is all that critical.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Karl<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/1/10 2:30 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk">martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:EB1E7CB92F5B35459E0B926D2A614DB60C6EEB6B@EXCHANGE19.fed.cclrc.ac.uk"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Hello
All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Sorry
to be repetitive, but I want to repeat a question I raised
earlier today (Monday
in the UK) and hasn’t been answered yet: will the proposed
change to the CF
checker be matched to a change to the conformance document
so that the CF 1.4
conformance no longer demands that variables named in
cell_measures be in the
same file? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I’ve
also copied Bryan and Michael in again, so to get a
quality control perspective
– as it worries me that an agreement made in a rush might
not meet the
expectations of the quality control we have committed to,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Martin
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt;
border-style: none none none solid; border-color:
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color
blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
medium medium; border-style: solid none none;
border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext; font-weight: bold;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;" lang="EN-US"> Karl Taylor
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:taylor13@llnl.gov">mailto:taylor13@llnl.gov</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
01 November 2010 18:19<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Kettleborough, Jamie<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Bentley, Philip; V. Balaji;
Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,SSTD);
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cmor@lists.llnl.gov">cmor@lists.llnl.gov</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Kyle.Olivo@noaa.gov">Kyle.Olivo@noaa.gov</a>; Doutriaux, Charles<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Go-essp-tech] CMOR
and cell_measures issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Jamie,<br>
<br>
I'm arguing that given that cell_measures (or
ext_cell_measures) will *not*
appear in files containing fields most likely to be
carried on a mesh
different from the "primary" mesh (because I've removed
those
from the requested output table, and hence the CMOR
tables), I think it is
better to *assume* the remaining variables are on the
"primary"
mesh. I would be surprise if more than 1% of the
variables written will
have cell_measures pointing to an incorrect area field.
If it does, I
assume the area variable will have different latxlon
dimensions than the
variable itself, so it will be difficult for a user to
mistakenly apply the
areas.<br>
<br>
So rather than advocate completeness over correctness,
I'd say I'm advocating
"almost perfect" versus "perfect".<br>
<br>
If the number of offending cases is much larger than I'm
imagining, please let
me know.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Karl<br>
<br>
On 11/1/10 10:09 AM, Kettleborough, Jamie wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">Hello
Karl,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">thanks
for this
reply. Putting aside the issue of whether this is
really ext_cell_measures
or cell_measures then I think, given the resources we
have locally, we have to
make a choice of correctness vs completeness. The
reason we are tempted
to turn off ext_cell_measures is it is the least effort
way we can see of submitting
data that is correct. I think you are suggesting going
for completness -
even if we risk submitting some data with
ext_cell_measures that is
incorrect. Obviously this is *my* interpretation of
what you are
saying. Yes we can go for both correctness and
completeness, but this
will take us some effort - we need an exta component
in our system
that can recognise which cell areas to assign to which
variables
(with minimum error) - and we (like everyone) have lots
of demands on our
effort at the moment - and we have to make judgements
about where to
prioritise. (This isn't supposed to be a sob story -
just trying to
explain why we are tempted...)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">Would
you recommend
'completeness' over 'correctness' - have I interpreted
you correctly?
What are the options for correcting incorrect meta-data
once data is ingested
into ESG?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">Jamie</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style="border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt;
border-style: none none none solid; border-color:
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color
blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt;">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"
align="center"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN-US">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight: bold;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"
lang="EN-US"> Karl
Taylor [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:taylor13@llnl.gov">mailto:taylor13@llnl.gov</a>]
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
29 October 2010 21:36<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Kettleborough, Jamie<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Bentley, Philip; V. Balaji; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk">martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cmor@lists.llnl.gov">cmor@lists.llnl.gov</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Kyle.Olivo@noaa.gov">Kyle.Olivo@noaa.gov</a>;
Doutriaux, Charles<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Go-essp-tech] CMOR
and cell_measures issues</span></font><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dear
Jamie and Charles (a couple of questions for
you),<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;">Hello Karl,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;">I think the recommended way
to 'turn off' ext_cell_measures is to make a call to
cmor.set_variable_attribute(varid,
'ext_cell_measures', ''). Is that
right? We are very tempted to do this for all
variables - so basically
overriding the MIP tables. How big a problem do you
think this will be
for data users - our grid is pretty straight forward
and users can calculate
cell_areas from the latitudes.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
Yes, if the cell areas stored in areacella are not
appropriate for a particular
field, and the requested output tables say that
ext_cell_measure includes
areacella, then you should call the set attribute
function to reset
ext_cell_measures="". Isn't that right Charles?<br>
<br>
Why are you tempted to turn off the ext_cell_measures
for all variables?
Then your output won't conform to the CMIP5
requirements.<br>
<br>
In the latest CMOR tables, I have removed
ext_cell_measures from all the
variables that we don't expect always to be on the
standard mesh (i.e., on the
grid for which areacella is correct). This includes
velocities and
transports and closely related fields, which are
sometimes staggered relative
to areacella. I would still be interested in hearing
a clear explanation
for why there are additional fields carried on a
completely different grid. <br>
<br>
If users must compute the cell areas for only your
grid, and for all others
they simply read the areacella field in, then you are
creating a special case
that is completely unnecessary.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;">That aside, doesn't
the approach of providing alternative grid areas need
more discussion?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;"> 1. how should we
produce these. The most natural approach I can think
of is to modify the
fx MIP tables to add in areacellb (or whatever we
choose to call it) and then
output through CMOR - this will maximise the chance of
consistency between
different grid area files for any one model. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;"> 2. how should we reference
these additional areas from a variable.? I could call
cmor.set_variable_attribute(varid,
'ext_cell_measures', 'areacellb') - but in
the tests I've done on CMOR 2.4 this only does half
the job: it puts the
appropriate ext_call_measures attribute into the file,
but does nothing with
associatedFiles.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I don't
think it is a high priority to standardize
this immediately. We will want CMOR to place the
fields in the
subdirectory fx, so I need to check with Charles
whether this requires the
variable to appear in table fx. If not, I would
probably build an
entirely new table similar to fx, but with only the
additional variables.
This way you won't have to modify your table if a new
fx table comes out.
As for referencing these additional area variables, I
think if you include
area: <area_name> in the ext_cell_measures
attribute, then if CMOR isn't
already doing this, Charles can modify construction of
associated_files to
include something following the template
"<area_name>:
<area_name>_fx_IPSL-CM5_historical_r0i0p0.nc"
What do you think, Charles?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;">Clearly these may have been
things you were going to cover - but ran out of time
to, in which case sorry.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;">I think another scenario
that still needs some thought is one where a data
provider has submitted data
and published it in ESG. They then realise they
made a mistake - they
should have turned ext_cell_measures off, but didn't
(or visa-versa). What
happens in this case? (We have kind of done this in
that we have send
data with incorrect cell_measures to the BADC - but
have caught the
issue before ingestion into ESG - I don't believe
we will always be this
lucky). You'll probably see through why I'm asking
this
question about meta-data updates again now, so I may
as well be explicit... If
we choose to turn off ext_cell_measures for all our
diagnostics on this initial
submission - what are our options for recovering
from this if we later
found the decision to submit without
ext_cell_measures was making our data
hard to use?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
Please don't turn off ext_cell_measures (in
general). I think you
could easily write a script to remove the
cell_measures attribute using netCDF
tools, but adding it would require rewriting the
entire file.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Karl<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color:
blue;">Jamie</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt;
border-style: none none none solid; border-color:
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;
margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt;">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"
align="center"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
lang="EN-US">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight: bold;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"
lang="EN-US"> Karl
Taylor [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:taylor13@llnl.gov">mailto:taylor13@llnl.gov</a>]
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
29 October 2010 02:15<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Bentley, Philip<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
V. Balaji; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk">martin.juckes@stfc.ac.uk</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:go-essp-tech@ucar.edu">go-essp-tech@ucar.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cmor@lists.llnl.gov">cmor@lists.llnl.gov</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Kyle.Olivo@noaa.gov">Kyle.Olivo@noaa.gov</a>;
Doutriaux, Charles;
Kettleborough, Jamie<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Go-essp-tech] CMOR
and cell_measures issues</span></font><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dear
all,<br>
<br>
I meant to try to address all the stuff in this
discussion, but won't have time
today. This email is just to say that I think we
should insist that the
cell_area files (areacella and areacello) be placed
in the archive, even if
there are also gridspec files. The
ext_cell_measures attribute should
also be included for fields that are on the
"standard" grid (i.e.,
the one with the cell areas stored in areacella or
areacello). If there
are other fields for which the standard areas are
inappropriate and where your
scientists think it is important to provide cell
areas, then I recommend that
you create specially named variables and place them
in the "fx"
subdirectories. For variables not on the
"standard" grid
(i.e., the grid of areacella or areacello), you
should "turn off" the
ext_cell_measures attribute.<br>
<br>
I don't expect most groups to produce gridspec
files, so most analysts will be
looking for areas in the areacella and areacello
variables, not the gridspec
files. This is why you should write the areacella
and areacello files
even if you also write the gridspec files.<br>
<br>
Also, could you please explain why you prefer not to
duplicate the
"fx" fields in each experiment's directory tree. <br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Karl<br>
<br>
On 10/25/10 7:12 AM, Bentley, Philip wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hi Balaji,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Phil, I'm very impressed that Had will have gridspec files, <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">is this a done deal? I've been so pessimistic about this that <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I was wondering if even we should do one ourselves.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Nope, not a done deal yet :-(<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">In line with the CMIP5 expt design doc, we don't really need to provide<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec files since all our model output is on either regular or<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">uniform grids (i.e. simple cartesian product of lat & long).<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">However, this whole cell_measures business prompted me to revisit the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec tools and output, which reminded me that the gridspec netcdf<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">files include a cell area variable. Which in turn means we wouldn't need<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">to provide a separate file (or files) for cell areas. Hence we could<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">drop the ext_cell_measures attribute from our CMIP5 output files.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Using the gridspec tools may be a quick and easy way for us to provide<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">cell area info if we need to.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Caveat: from a quick glance it looks like the netcdf files produced by<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">the gridspec tools are not CF compliant. Is this is an issue? Presumably<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">it is if we want all the data in the CMIP5 archive to be CF compliant.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">(NB: it could be I'm not running with the very latest version of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">tools - but I couldn't see a more recent version on the gfdl web site).<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">You know of course that gridspec says you can supply<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_pgrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_ugrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_vgrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_uvgrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">as one single supergrid...<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">If I could figure out how to output all 7 or 8 atm/ocn (sub-)grids to a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">single netcdf file I would, but the available documentation (e.g. for<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">make_hgrid) isn't clear on this point. Sorry, that's probably just me<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">being dumb! But if there is updated documentation then please point me<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">to it. If necessary I could concatenate variables afterwards using NCO<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">tools.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Right now I'm trying to figure out how to create a gridspec file for our<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">HadGEM2 ocean model, which uses a stretched (i.e. tartan/plaid) grid:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">longitudes are evenly spaced, latitudes vary from 1 deg to 1/3 deg.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">(Looks like I need to use the --my_grid_file option to supply the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">lat/long coords).<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">But if you're doing gridspec at all, I will concede this <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">point:-). Let's both do these separate gridspecs for now.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Works for me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I think we're suffering from 'early-adopter syndrome' :-/<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Phil<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Bentley, Philip writes:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hi Karl,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">A somewhat belated follow-up question in connection with <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">this proposal <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">(and with some slight overlap with Jamie's email which <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">crossed on the <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">ether)...<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">As things stand the files named in the 'associated_files' attribute <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">appear thus (using our RCP 4.5 simulation as an example):<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">"... gridspecFile: gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_rcp45_r0i0p0.nc areacella:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">areacella_fx_HadGEM2-ES_rcp45_r0i0p0.nc"<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Are the <expt_id>_<rip> parts (i.e. 'rcp45_r0i0p0.nc' ) actually <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">required? AFAIK, our gridspec/cellarea files will not <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">change from one <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">simulation to the next using the same model (HadGEM2-ES in <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">this case).<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Since, like most centers, we will be running large numbers of <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">simulations using the same model, it looks like we would need to <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">create numerous duplicates of the gridspec/cellarea files - <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">or lots of <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">symlinks<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">- in order to for these references to make sense. Unless you are <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">planning to manage that on our behalf somehow...?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I think our 4 gridspec files for the HadGEM2 atm grids are <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">likely to <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">be called something like...<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_pgrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_ugrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_vgrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">gridspec_fx_HadGEM2-ES_atm_uvgrid.nc<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">So without any simulation-specific info. (There would also be files <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">for the ocean grids)<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">As it happens the gridspec files contain grid cell areas, <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">so I'm now <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">wondering if we'd even supply both?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. I may be <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">mis-understanding something/everything :-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Phil<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<p>-- <br>
Scanned by iCritical.
</p>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>