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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Steve,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>2 philosophical cents (well, really a rant, I'll admit):<br>
<br>
A remarkable number of the best, easiest, and most powerful ideas are pushed
off of our table by a perceived requirement that access to data be
restricted. Elements of this are inevitable. Still I believe
that we should find much better ways as a data technology community (including
our own ESG project) to allow the superior technology options that become
available through open access to shine. <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>[Kershaw, Philip (STFC,RAL,SSTD)] I’m not so sure how superior
they are if no thought was given to security when they were conceived :)
Admittedly in some cases the technology wasn’t there at the time some were thought
up.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
At the org-chart level there is a broken system of checks-and-balances.
The requirements for restricted access are imposed down the line in the org
chart, without any mechanism for push-back -- for explaining to those who
impose the restrictions what unintended price is being paid by doing so.
While the org chart relationships tie our hands, the Web as a visible showcase
for good ideas can provide the missing force of balance. We are seeing
just this as we weigh BioTorrents against our own solutions. <br>
<br>
<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>[Kershaw, Philip (STFC,RAL,SSTD)] I’m not directly addressing
your point but just to observe, I think it is dependent on people’s perceptions
and experiences. For example, I think nothing of registering at my local library
for a library card so I can loan books. I’m restricted in that I have to
register even though it’s a public service made available by the government. It
shouldn’t then be a problem for me to register with a federation so that I can
access data. By registering they can keep me up to date about their data and services
e.g. e-mailing to warn me that the data I downloaded is corrupted.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Clearly access-restricted datasets could not be hosted on
the open systems. But that absence would be precisely the loss that makes the
technology cost of restricted access visible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>[Kershaw, Philip (STFC,RAL,SSTD)] I don’t think it has been that
visible in one case here. We’ve not hosted an OPeNDAP service at the BADC partly
because we had no means of restricting access. The licensing of the data wouldn’t
allow us. The system we’ve developed to secure OPeNDAP for ESG has meant that
we can now open up access to datasets here via an OPeNDAP service. There’s
some irony that the ability to add access control has opened up access.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
I wonder if we shouldn't be promoting the (superior) technologies that become
available with open access in parallel with the (costly and permanently slower
to evolve) secure federated approaches. <span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>[Kershaw, Philip (STFC,RAL,SSTD)] I agree they can seem heavyweight.
I think we are still at a stage where these things are maturing and more easily
usable systems will evolve. Some of the newer web 2.0 based technologies such
as OpenID have gone some way to lowering the bar with implementing a federation.
Looking at this another way the ability to identify users is an asset. Social
networking sites would be meaningless without the concept of user identity. Isn’t
the creation of federations something we can exploit to bring our own user
communities closer together and promote collaboration and research?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Phil<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
=========================================<br>
<br>
Alex Sim wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>If we can resolve authorization aspects on the datasets with torrents,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>we can probably support torrents technology in the future. all data<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>access is open in this torrents and most others too.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>-- Alex<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On 4/20/10 8:40 AM, V. Balaji wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre><a
href="http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010071">http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010071</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>It's a great pity we aren't using torrent technology in our field...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>GO-ESSP-TECH mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu">GO-ESSP-TECH@ucar.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech">http://mailman.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/go-essp-tech</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Steve Hankin, NOAA/PMEL -- <a
href="mailto:Steven.C.Hankin@noaa.gov">Steven.C.Hankin@noaa.gov</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>7600 Sand Point Way NE, Seattle, WA 98115-0070<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ph. (206) 526-6080, FAX (206) 526-6744<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke<o:p></o:p></pre></div>
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